11 replies to this topic

[Immie]

I made a thread about this in alpha (optimizations have not changed)... did some math, and I found that the single +75 HP optimization granted more effective toughness than the rest of the +% damage reduction ones put together, including the final level.

The difference changes based on which class you are, but the current system promotes placing points into defense until you can get the +75hp, then speccing into mobility to get fuel regen, faster dodge cooldown, and the three +15 HP points. This is, from my experience, much stronger than any other combination, and kills the balance. The only time to consider something else would be on a sniper mech... even then, it's probably still better than boosting damage, unless you sit extremely far back and never engage/take return fire.


Furthermore, the +EU carrying capacity optimizations/internal are just ugly to me... they are completely useless except in one game mode, where they become extremely good. Kind of forces you to change your optimizations between game modes, which is just awkward to me. I'd like to see a redesign on their part.




Lastly, I feel like most of the optimizations are simply too weak. Most of them have an effect of less than one percent. Maxing all of the bullet damage options in the damage tree gives you a grand total of 7% for 9 optimization points spent.

Some may argue that it is a good thing for optimizations not to have a huge impact, and to some extent, I agree... however, they are currently so pathetic that it's almost pointless to bother with them at all. If a matchmaking system is implemented, it will mostly solve the problem of fully ranked players having an advantage over new ones, so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be improved to add a bit more meaning to them.


Thoughts_

Edited by Immie, October 26 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[c0mad0r]

Glad I'm not the only one sitting there with a Calculator doing the math here!

Defensive Internals Choices:
Decrease all Damage 4%
Decrease Bullet Damage 6%
Decrease Explosion Damage 6%
+50 Health
Heal Repair +30HP/1sec

Assume 675 (Light) Health for A-Class:

Given the Defensive Internals Choices below:

Decrease all Damage 4% of 675    = ~47HP saved total by choosing this
Decrease Bullet Damage 6%  of 675 = ~41HP saved total by choosing this
Decrease Explosion Damage 6% of 675 = ~30HP saved per direct hit by choosing this


Compare that against +50HP up front... kind of a no brainer.

If you play heavy however, the +30/1sec heal is pretty nice too though.

Edited by c0mad0r, October 26 2012 - 11:39 PM.

[Immie]

Ah, thanks for the mathpost, I was too lazy to do it again and didn't feel like admitting it.   

Externals almost all find themselves in the exact same pitfalls I describe in the OP.

Edited by Immie, October 26 2012 - 10:25 PM.

[ReachH]

Maxed out damage and rate of fire, there is a massively noticeable difference in ability to kill players (one less volly/few less seconds is massive in an action game...). Never even saw the final ones! some of them are redundant though (dmg reduc% vs +health).

[Astrolis]

We need a way to make our optimization points stick first I think. I put points in as I get them and play a game. Go back to check and the points are all reset (No points in anything).

But yes, in all it needs a re-vamp.

[Immie]

ReachH, on October 27 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Maxed out damage and rate of fire, there is a massively noticeable difference in ability to kill players (one less volly/few less seconds is massive in an action game...). Never even saw the final ones! some of them are redundant though (dmg reduc% vs +health).

I would argue that +7% is not "massive". On average, that means less than half a second faster time to kill.

The only case where I really notice a difference is with the special weapons loader internal, which is -0.5 seconds, or 10% faster. Taken with the -0.25 optimization you get a 15% faster reload time, which is actually a pretty big deal... but it's only another example of an additive/subtractive option being flat out superior to the arbitrarily weak % based ones.

Edited by Immie, October 27 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[Juodvarnis]

To be honest i'm not very fond of the Optimizations. Why_ It makes more experienced players not only more skillful but they also are stronger. I believe it will discourage newer players, decreasing the longevity of the game.
But it's just my 2 cents

[Immie]

That's a fair point... however, since the issue is really just having new players and experienced ones in the same games, a matchmaking system would mostly solve that problem.

[defekt]

I’m going to refer to LoL again.  Apologies in advance.  (Well come on, like the game or loath it, it got a heck of a lot of stuff right behind the scenes.)

In LoL the % bonus Runes provided a far weaker early game bonus than the flat integer bonus Runes but went on to being more valuable in the later game.  The % Runes were for the folks who liked to bloom later on in a match and the flat integer Runes were for the folks who wanted a (transitory) early game boost.  I realise Hawken is a static game -- in that mech resource levels remain fixed throughout a match -- but I do wonder what the rationale was behind the flat integer items being clearly superior, and remaining so.

As for matchmaking, it has been state in another thread that the game will have matchmaking.  Whether that works on a per mech basis, i.e., all the Level 0 mechs are lumped together, or pilot career total XP, i.e., even if you’re a ‘career level 20’ pilot in a Level 0 mech you still get lobbed in with the other career Level 20s, remains to be seen.

[ForgottenSoup]

Astrolis, on October 27 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

We need a way to make our optimization points stick first I think. I put points in as I get them and play a game. Go back to check and the points are all reset (No points in anything).

But yes, in all it needs a re-vamp.

Kept happening to me too until I realized you have to click the orange icon of a mech in order to save them.

[Astrolis]

ForgottenSoup, on October 30 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Astrolis, on October 27 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

We need a way to make our optimization points stick first I think. I put points in as I get them and play a game. Go back to check and the points are all reset (No points in anything).

But yes, in all it needs a re-vamp.

Kept happening to me too until I realized you have to click the orange icon of a mech in order to save them.

yea got that solved on my end as well. Now my mechs keep resetting over and over. Everyone is saying "IM lvl 20!!" and I say "How many times did your mech lvl reset_" Guess I have the short end of the stick this event.

[Immie]

defekt, on October 30 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

I do wonder what the rationale was behind the flat integer items being clearly superior, and remaining so.

As far as I can tell, they were simply overlooked... so we've got to do our best to bring it to the dev's attention and get stuff fixed.