27 replies to this topic

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

The leveling in this game needs to be about twice as fast as the boosted xp gives you. You should be able to level out a mech in a sitting. No one wants to come into a game and spend all this time leveling. It trivializes the gameplay and just creates a grind.

Look at tribes, popularity for that went down the hole. Because no one wants to sit there leveling up from nothing, playing against people who've bought everything.

Look at Quake live, it doesn't even come close to the popularity that Q3 did. No one wants to pay a sub to play a full game. No one wants to keep shelling out money for a game like that.

A lot of people would much rather pay 50-60 bucks just to buy a full game and have everything accessable and ready for them.

Look at TF2. Their cash shop is the best in the market. Just about everything in the shop is strongly considered a direct side grade to the stock weapons. There are very few items that are considered direct upgrades.

Players can imediately jump into tf2 and be on an even playing field with other players. You can get any of the weapons rather easily through regular gameplay. Making the only advantages from the cash shop available purely cosmetic. And their shop is a HUGE success. People want to play that game, and they have a good time playing that game, so naturally they want to spend money on it.

If you want to make money on hawken as well as have it be a successful and popular game. You can't have any of this arbitrary leveling. That's just slowing players down from playing the full game, and opening a window for people who regularly pay out cash to gain an edge.

The money will come to you when money doesn't affect the game play, and everybody is on an even playing field from the start. I promise that's the best way to entice people to support and put their money into this game, and actually have sustainability.

The mechs are much more fun to play with when maxed out, so don't put arbitrary walls between that game play and the players.

[Halfblud]

I agree that the leveling needs to be faster, though leveling out a mech in one sitting might be a bit much. If I sit down and drop a few hours into gameplay like I did on launch night, I'd like to be able to at least gain 1 or 2 levels, even if I'm not very good. That's the point of the early levels, to get familiar with the game. Forcing people to get familiar with the game, while offering little to no reward doesn't make them want to come back.

People are driven by goals and success. Making those goals incredibly hard to obtain will shrink the fan base. I don't want the game overly easy (i.e. anyone who plays 2 games gets a level), but I do think that giving people a taste of success early on will keep them coming back.

[My_Little_Pwny]

I certainly agree that, at the very least, the first several levels should come quickly. I also think the Hawken Points acquisition needs to be slightly higher. I've played at least a dozen games now and I still only have 1/4 of the money needed to buy the cheapest of items. The counterpoint to this argument is that Hawken IS going to be a free game (at least free to play, I dunno if you have to pay for the game initially though) and so the RL money bought credits are going to be the moneymakers for the company. However some players don't have the kind of money, or simply aren't willing to spend the kind of money, to gear up all their mechs instantly, and must rely on traditional gameplay.

In short, I respect the company's need to make money, but I fear that requiring vast payments of real money will turn away many of the propspective players.

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

My_Little_Pwny, on October 29 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

In short, I respect the company's need to make money, but I fear that requiring vast payments of real money will turn away many of the propspective players.

That's why they need to take up the tf2 model. They'll make their money if the game is fun and readily accessable to everyone. Let people learn the game through their own will. None of this arbitrary and slow leveling. This game is fun, don't hide that from your potential customers behind such bad mechanics.

[Daien]

Took me about 10 hours to get a mech lvl max without double xp. If you're asking to increase the leveling rate, might as well remove it totaly.

[Ruzhyo]

Hrm... I was playing DM and TDM for about 3 hours last night and got to level... two. Tonight I turned on the XP boost and played TDM/DM for an hour and got to level 3. Then I played one game of Missile, and hit level 5_ I didn't even play well, I just ran like a moron towards the big shiny icons. Why so much XP for one mode but not the others_

Anyhow, learn from Diablo 3. Levels should come fast and furious when you start, and getting to the max level shouldn't be super difficult, but a learning experience. Then once you're at the maximum level, you need something exponentially slower and harder for players to grind, so that they have something to keep playing for. Cosmetic things are great for this, everyone loves to be able to show off how good they are.

[Saunders]

Good news - we totally agree!  Right now it's waaay too slow.  But that's part of what this closed beta is for - to test stuff like that.

We'll be rolling out some pretty big updates to the leveling and currency systems between now and open beta.  Definitely let us know what you think

[RenaldoMoonSMN]

I agree completely with OP especially how the shop currently works. It needs to be an accessory to the game and not a necessary element. The current model might make you more money in the short term but the TF model will make you more in the long run.

Edited by RenaldoMoonSMN, October 29 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Stealth_303]

I agree AND I disagree, look at League of legends:

They have a levelling system that takes a long time, but gamers are matched together to keep the games balanced. Also, like the OP said, added aesthetics for cash is good, League of Legends uses 'skins' to make a lot of money, they do not affect the game other than the look. And allow for several cash incomes from one character, take the recent Ezreal skin that cost £20

Levelling should go on for a very long time, almost 'forever', think BSGO! But it shouldn't change the balance of the game, unbalanced games will cost you customers and cash.

If you let people level too quickly then they will have everything, frankly that is no good, there should always be something to strive to gain.

This element is so important, the whole thing hangs on the way we pay for the game... Please look at the very important League of Legends example of massive fiscal success.

Edited by Stealth_303, October 30 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Zarok]

Massive_Assailant_Stingray, on October 29 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

If you want to make money on hawken as well as have it be a successful and popular game. You can't have any of this arbitrary leveling. That's just slowing players down from playing the full game, and opening a window for people who regularly pay out cash to gain an edge.

The money will come to you when money doesn't affect the game play, and everybody is on an even playing field from the start. I promise that's the best way to entice people to support and put their money into this game, and actually have sustainability.

The mechs are much more fun to play with when maxed out, so don't put arbitrary walls between that game play and the players.

Agreed paying for power in games ruins the experience for those who choose not to pay.  Also I agree the levelling is slow and diminishes my feeling of "progression" just my feeling after playing a handful of matches.

[ForgottenSoup]

I'm actually quite alright with the current exp gain.  You can gain two levels in one good match if you do well.  I like the grind.

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

Stealth_303, on October 30 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

I agree AND I disagree, look at League of legends:

They have a levelling system that takes a long time, but gamers are matched together to keep the games balanced. Also, like the OP said, added aesthetics for cash is good, League of Legends uses 'skins' to make a lot of money, they do not affect the game other than the look. And allow for several cash incomes from one character, take the recent Ezreal skin that cost £20

Levelling should go on for a very long time, almost 'forever', think BSGO! But it shouldn't change the balance of the game, unbalanced games will cost you customers and cash.

If you let people level too quickly then they will have everything, frankly that is no good, there should always be something to strive to gain.

This element is so important, the whole thing hangs on the way we pay for the game... Please look at the very important League of Legends example of massive fiscal success.

No, all that does is arbitrarily segregate the playing field by a massive amount. It's just silly. If you have everything available to people from the get go it's not about leveling it's not about grinding it's about actual player skill. I think that would segregate the comp play in a fair way. And pubbing will just be easily accessable and fun.

I think you should have to work to get new stuff, but it should be mostly side grades and balanced weapons/mechs etc, as well as cosmetics, and I think it'd be fair to either buy them or grind for them. You shouldn't have to work to get it and then work to level it up. People don't want to work for something, then work to make it fun. Why would you want to work to make anything fun_

I would think players would even learn faster as well. If you hand them the full plate and let them test it through trial and error, I think they'd learn faster than, in say any leveling system, dribbling them puzzle peices every couple games.

That's why tf2 a free game makes millions upon millions in their cash shop. And that's why tribes is just meh.

[Aelieth]

Massive_Assailant_Stingray, on October 30 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Stealth_303, on October 30 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

I agree AND I disagree, look at League of legends:

They have a levelling system that takes a long time, but gamers are matched together to keep the games balanced. Also, like the OP said, added aesthetics for cash is good, League of Legends uses 'skins' to make a lot of money, they do not affect the game other than the look. And allow for several cash incomes from one character, take the recent Ezreal skin that cost £20

Levelling should go on for a very long time, almost 'forever', think BSGO! But it shouldn't change the balance of the game, unbalanced games will cost you customers and cash.

If you let people level too quickly then they will have everything, frankly that is no good, there should always be something to strive to gain.

This element is so important, the whole thing hangs on the way we pay for the game... Please look at the very important League of Legends example of massive fiscal success.

No, all that does is arbitrarily segregate the playing field by a massive amount. It's just silly. If you have everything available to people from the get go it's not about leveling it's not about grinding it's about actual player skill. I think that would segregate the comp play in a fair way. And pubbing will just be easily accessable and fun.

I think you should have to work to get new stuff, but it should be mostly side grades and balanced weapons/mechs etc, as well as cosmetics, and I think it'd be fair to either buy them or grind for them. You shouldn't have to work to get it and then work to level it up. People don't want to work for something, then work to make it fun. Why would you want to work to make anything fun_

I would think players would even learn faster as well. If you hand them the full plate and let them test it through trial and error, I think they'd learn faster than, in say any leveling system, dribbling them puzzle peices every couple games.

That's why tf2 a free game makes millions upon millions in their cash shop. And that's why tribes is just meh.

Have you played League of Legends_ It's done very well, and is why it is a huge success. The leveling is very balanced, and keeps newcomers from being torn to shreds by veterans in a game. However, all the servers and match making would need to be controlled by Meteor in order to keep things balanced. I do agree that TF2 is also a huge success, and they each do their own way of things. Looks like Meteor may want to go the way of leveling and more options for the players to mess with their mechs.

It also allows players to learn skills better and in late game they can learn how to change their stats to better use those skills. The thing Stealth forgot to mention is - level advancement is across the board. In that case, all mechs would be under the same level adjustment and not one by one.

Hopefully there will be servers with skill levels somehow balanced out. So certain level mechs are allowed or certain level of players, however they decide to do it. I can already see a huge advantage between my level 20 mech full buffed versus other normal beta players that may not have all the edges I do. The way it is done right now, I do not agree with, but that's why it's Beta. Good chances for them to try things before it's live.

[Stealth_303]

@Massive_Assailant_Stingray

"No, all that does is arbitrarily segregate the playing field by a massive amount. It's just silly." -  what on earth does player skill do if not segregate the field_ Of course the field is segregated! Everything depends on how you look at it.

"hand them the full plate", "People don't want to work for something", not everyone feels like you have painted them here; a member above says they "like the grind", and I for one am completley happy "[working] for something".

Despite you starting your reply to me with "No" and "it's just silly", we actually share a perspective on this, we both call for estheics to be the cash generator and we both want the system to be fair.

[Inny]

I got two mechs to level 20 in just a weekend of playing. Siege mode gives huge amounts of XP. too much, honestly.

[ArnieF4440]

Inny, on October 31 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

I got two mechs to level 20 in just a weekend of playing. Siege mode gives huge amounts of XP. too much, honestly.

+1 to that, Siege mode gives me atleast 5000-15000 exp per match (depending on the teams, it could be much less though XD) and is much faster to level up than the other modes. I managed to level 20 my Infiltrator just today playing Siege

Maybe if the other modes granted more exp or had more bonusses_

What I mean is like with TDM, if you're with a lot of team mates when taking down opponents, there could be a "staying together" bonus for each kill_

Edited by ArnieF4440, October 31 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[NotAnExit]

Agreed.  Sadly at this point there is no incentive to play any mode except siege until after level 20.

[defekt]

It is (was) pretty easy to milk Siege if gaining XP was your only concern.  If you were on the losing side you left the game early and found another one because often the rewards aren't worth your time for a loss, but winning too easily wasn't an effective way of farming XP from the mode either.  The ideal game was a long game, as long as you can drag things out, and to be on the winning side.

No matter what the game mode is they should all broadly net the same rewards per hour, for both XP and HP.

[RedVan]

I felt the leveling was fine.  Frankly, I don't want to level a mech in one sitting (how long is one sitting anyway_  A day_  a couple hrs_  2 days_).  If you're going to have a leveling system, it defeats the purpose if you can max level in one sitting.  Why not just eliminate the leveling system_

As for Tribes: Assend, popularity goes down because people suck at it.  I've used the exact same loadout since I started playing (minor changes).  Started with SLD, fusor, eaglol.  I maxed out my equipment, and have used it since (well, now I'm using either AR + Blinkfusor, or primaryfusor + blinkfusor, depending on my mood).  The total amount of XP needed to unlock all that is quite minimal, and that's all I bother using.  If people want to slowly buy upgrades in all the classes, of course it's going to take longer.  But if they focus on one class they enjoy, its not hard to level up.

[Coldrew]

I prefer slightly slower levels, they give you more time to really get to know your mech. The difference between siege's xp payout and TDM/DM is problematic. I'd like to see more evenly distributed xp between game modes.
Might suggest giving more for assists and kills in killing match types, and less for objectives in objective types. But, I know for me, if I was aware of the difference in payout on game modes, I'd be inclined to play more of the mode that pays out better.
Maybe diversify the reward per gametype to steer people towards different match types depending on their resource needs_ ...now I'm just spitballin'.