14 replies to this topic

[LordofNosgoth]

1) Sharpshooter needs to have more base fuel. I've noticed that sharpshooters have to keep their distance - and I mean really keep their distance - just to survive, much less be effective.

2) Sharpshooters are wildly ineffective. I heard a lot of good things that made me think they'd be great in TDM... but they're not, sadly.
- 2a)The Sabot Rifle takes way too long to load to be a viable fall back option (and ALWAYS misses at close range which is so ludicrous I can't even begin to comprehend the reasoning behind it); enemies can load and fire 2 Tow missles in the interim between single Sabot shots and Tows do way more damage (not to mention splash damage).
- 2b) The SA Hawkins, while fairly accurate, should fire just a little bit faster. Not too much, then it would be broken, but just a little bit because it's useless up close.
- 2c) The Slug Rifle, while accurate and effective, also takes far too long to load to be of much use should the situation turn to a range disadvantage. Either up the damage a wee bit (to encourage assault types to keep their bloody distance) or increase the fire rate. 1 Measure faster should be enough.

3) Why is it that every developer these days rips from Crysis when it comes to cloak___ No engineer in their right mind would design a cloaking device that tied to main power - which is the only explanation I can come up with for the cloak draining faster as you move; it pulls from the same energy pool - and no engineer would keep a cloak design that transferred the ability to the bullets it fires (hence the reason why a player de-cloaks upon firing). Stop that craziness.

4) If - and when - the spawn points fuzzy bunny you up, you don't stand a chance of survival; you WILL die. Needlessly. Horribly. Either the way the game spawns should be changed (like spawning on teammates) or give the non-heavy mechs a way to be faster on their feet.

5) The need to include Clan tags has already been mentioned.

6) Maps are big and broad - which is good - but far too enclosed (most of them, anyway) and because of this generally favor only the assault class. A good example of balanced maps would be Kharg Island (TDM) and Noshahr Canals (TDM) from BF3. While lots of folks gripe about rooftop and crane snipers, fact is the maps are balanced so that every class can have a fair game, rather than favor a single class solely.
^^ This should be re-thought. I know some are going to argue about the ONE and ONLY map where sniping can be effective, but with the inability to escape_ Arguement Invalid.^^

7) Last but certainly not least: Spawn points. They suck. Hard. I've got several video clips where - 4 times consecutively - I was spawned into the middle of enemy turf in Team Deathmatch! This is simply unacceptable; I can see making excuses for deathmatch, but in TDM_ Sorry, that particular piece of fuzzy bunny simply will not fly my good sirs.

Those are my humble thoughts. Take them as you will.

Fight the Good Fight!

LordofNosgoth

[BeefC4ke]

Sharpshooters are fine. If they implemented the changes you suggested I would feel ridiculously overpowered in my sharpshooter. Right now it feels balanced.

Tip: Learn to scope so that your sabot rounds hit. It's middle mouse by default.

[LordofNosgoth]

BeefC4ke, on October 30 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Sharpshooters are fine. If they implemented the changes you suggested I would feel ridiculously overpowered in my sharpshooter. Right now it feels balanced.

Tip: Learn to scope so that your sabot rounds hit. It's middle mouse by default.

I already do this for distance shots. What I'm talking about is point blank range. They miss. Every. Single. Time. I record every game and then go back and review them before posting. I'm not talking out of my bum.

If you'd feel OP with these changes, then you must never miss, be able to shoot through walls, see LoD models that aren't even close enough to be rendered yet (which is a neat trick) and always critical hit (I'm guessing a cockpit shot counts like a headshot_). If you are one such blessed person, then bully for you. As it is now, Sharpshooter is largely ineffective; he's the Sniper of the game. Ever had a Sniper Rifle that took more than a split second to load_ Me neither. And I carried one for 3 years in the Corps. Fast firing, accurate, powerful, small clip (due to large bullets and ammo weight). That's how all of the best Sniper Rifles are. Snipers aren't harassment tools in combat, they're target elimination at its finest. It's why our weapons are so powerful. I tend to enjoy it a bit more when the games I play mimic this. I'm okay with having to pick up ammo and having a low clip count; it makes up for having a powerful weapon. I'm not okay with my "Sniper weapons" being less effective than a fuzzy bunny assault rifle. That isn't cool.

[Subdivision]

1. & 2. A sniper rifle that has been nerfed at short range. I can only approve. You should change your loadout to accommodate closer ranged combat if you are currently struggling. I don't think the SA_Hawkins is as bad as you say close range. Maybe you need to practice your aim unscoped at a close to middle range. I've been hit every now and then by close range sabot. Normally miles away but sometimes much closer. Point blank, its too late for you I'm afraid. My brawler is going to ruin your day. No idea how you use the class or the maps I can only suggest you try and find the best vantage spots and locations for sniping from. I'm not being critical of you personally, I just don't agree with your points on the sharpshooter and think they could be worked around. There are plenty of classes and more to come so maybe it's just not a good fit for you.

3. I don't understand the point you are making on cloak. Are you saying you want it to have a separate power source to deplete independently or don't want to get revealed upon firing. Firing completely reveals your position regardless of cloak being on or off. Plus it's not hard to see cloaked people if you know what you're looking for. Had this in SC2 spotting cloaked units. You get a knack for it. Then its easy pickings.

4. Lighter mechs faster.... Really_ Just adjust spawn points please. The speed balance is currently pretty spot on for me. Any faster and the close range C-classes would never reach effective combat range and could be kitted all day. I assume you are talking about deathmatch here_

6. I don't know the maps you are talking about so I couldn't comment on them but again, I feel the sniper classes are still very effective. They often force people into closed off cover to avoid unnecessary damage where it is easy for other swoop in for a kill. It's a support role. I play it in most other fps games. The maps you talk of sound like they are favoured for snipers, not even. Snipers naturally have a harder day than most others but have high rewards in damage output and their ability to finish people off.

Nice constructive thought but most of the points you have raised feel like playstyle gripes to me. You clearly play sniper a lot in many games so I don't know if you can adapt to Hawken's environment. I haven't played sharpshooter in beta yet so I can not fully comment but I have seen the class do well regularly.

[Immie]

I don't mean to be offensive, and my apologies if you don't like it, but what I'm reading here is not "Sharpshooter is underpowered" and instead "LordofNosgoth is not good at sharpshooter"

It seems like you had a few bad games and came to post about it, assuming everyone else was struggling... and I can assure you they're not. Many players are having huge success with that class; buffing them in every aspect, like you are suggesting, would just make them overpowered.


As for cloak, I don't think its duration changes based on anything other than what level your special ability is... and generally, since you're still a pretty obvious blur on the screen, the ability is more useful for getting yourself off radar than actually trying to sneak past people as if they can't see you.


Spawn points can be pretty awful at times; my favorite is when I spawn with a turret pointing right up my arse, and the guy who planted it waiting in some not-too-far-off location...

Edited by Immie, October 30 2012 - 01:44 AM.

[LordofNosgoth]

I play sniper in most games because I enjoy it quite a bit. I'm also highly effective at assault class. I haven't play much as the other mechs, so I refrained trying to comment on what I've not played as extensively as the circumstances have allowed.

I understand in the interests of play balance sniper rifles not being one-shot kills like mine are; but nerfed at close range_ Um, how about "No"_ While I know that the .405 round has no where near the effectiveness at point blank that it does at 500M+, it will tear a life ending hole in you just the same. And it doesn't miss... at point blank, it's nearly impossible to miss. Why should these be any different_ Arguing for game balance would still put the ball squarely in my court: making a ranged gun useless up close takes away a valuable asset to the player, a drawback the other 2 classes I've played don't have (though, firing the TOW missile too closely will result in some serious blowback; caution to be used). So yes, I guess I'm a bit used to Snipers being more effective than they are here. Here, they're worthless. Sniper is support - in the sense that they "support" you by eliminating other snipers, high value/danger targets and anything else they can with accurate one-shot kills. All while being as incognito as possible and being able to run like the devil when their cover is blown.

Your arguements about not making lighter mechs faster is mind boggling... and defies known laws of physics.

Regarding cloak, I always just assumed there was an ability gauge (there usually is in games like this) so rather than seeing if I can spam my abilities, I find myself waiting long periods between uses out of habit. Perhaps I am wrong in this. If so, then cloak may very well be highly effective.
**Also of note: Quite a few the games I play regularly use a cloak or cloak-like ability; while each game has it's own way of managing it, it's usually easy to adjust seeing others through cloak, since most developers usually implement a way of seeing people/things - however slightly - through cloak, I've become pretty doggone good at seeing through it. Not seeing through cloak isn't my complaint. Unless they're far away, it actually attracts my attention rather than divert it.**

Better spawn points are needed period. Regardless of class.

The maps I referred to have spots that favor snipers intermingled with spots that favor... well, everything else. Makes for a very intense and fun gaming experience. While I don't think ANY game should mimic BF3 (oh dear God, please no). The larger point was to have more than just one or two maps where sniping is a viable option (2, actually).

Truth be told: I'd be okay if NONE of the suggested changes were made for sharpshooter... if I had the ability to switch my primary weapon in-game from slug to the SA Hawkins. Truth is, it would be nice to be able to switch the primaries on the fly for the other 2 classes I've played too. Give it a more dynamic feel; let me change playstyle on the fly should the occasion require it rather than having to hope I get it right based on... what_ Instinct_ Map layout_ Spawn points_ God's Will_ Yeah, none of those have worked real well. In such case, it's usually best to just go Assault which is relatively effective at every range, rather than just Mid to Close like it should be. If the devs have been playing, I'm betting they've noticed the vast majority of players use assault almost exclusively. It should be pretty obvious as to why.

[LordofNosgoth]

Immie, on October 30 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

I don't mean to be offensive, and my apologies if you don't like it, but what I'm reading here is not "Sharpshooter is underpowered" and instead "LordofNosgoth is not good at sharpshooter"

Then you should learn to read. I'm actually quite good at it. But going in a 20~ish minute game with 20+ assists and 3-5 kills with sniper weapons is simply unacceptable.Sniper weapons kill (or should). These don't. They harass and that's all. The class should be renamed appropriately if it's going to stay that way.

The only other thing is (and it has been mentioned before) I'm sure the class gets better as you earn points to upgrade it to be more effective... the problem is leveling is ludicrously slow. I'd be interested to see if the leveling system changing to be a bit quicker would turn my thoughts on the class.
Unfortunately, as it currently stands, the best way to level a class is by getting kills, since assists count for less than diddley. Out of the dozen or so games I've played, I've noticed only 1 game - just one - where a Sharpshooter did well. Amazingly enough, the player never seemed to run up his overheat gauge, never ran out of fuel and seemed to be able to shoot everyone on on the map without being seen. I didn't call shenanigans because he ran assault in the very next match and got owned pretty badly (maybe because everybody got tired of his shenanigans; I know I killed him more than a few times for it). After that, I tried my hand at sharpshooter and have been playing it ever since. It's pretty garbage-y out of the gate. It's so difficult to level that class that it's still really garbage-y.

[Subdivision]

LordofNosgoth, on October 30 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

I understand in the interests of play balance sniper rifles not being one-shot kills like mine are; but nerfed at close range_ Um, how about "No"_

Again, the weapons are not as bad as you are making them out to be at close range. They are completely capable of being used at close range as they are at long. When I say they should be nerfed in effect to range, I mean the damage output should be less when up close. You cannot compare the weapons in hawken to anything real. It's science fiction. The weapons need to have a weakness. My brawler is useless at long range unless someone is kind enough to stand still and take a TOW rocket to the face for me. It's not going to happen. You are clearly struggling with the game and have expectations from other games as to how it should function. As Immie says, your comments do not reflect well on your own capabilities.

LordofNosgoth, on October 30 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Then you should learn to read.

Yes YOU should. That's pretty rude in fairness and your original post has nothing that reads you are capable with the sharpshooter class. You begin by stating you want more fuel to survive. That shouldn't be your main concern. I've not found that problem with any class and I've played all 3. Not all to the same level but the game is currently very accommodating for players looking to get out of trouble. This game will punish those who approach it in the same way to a traditional fps. There is no headshot or such way to make a rapid takedown of the opponent. You have to use your skills and abilities much more to out class your opponents.

LordofNosgoth, on October 30 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

The maps I referred to have spots that favor snipers intermingled with spots that favor... well, everything else. Makes for a very intense and fun gaming experience. While I don't think ANY game should mimic BF3 (oh dear God, please no). The larger point was to have more than just one or two maps where sniping is a viable option (2, actually).

We're trying to tell you it is currently viable. I have seen plenty of players do well with the class. I would suggest asking for more guidance and tips on what works from more experience players with the class.

LordofNosgoth, on October 30 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Your arguements about not making lighter mechs faster is mind boggling... and defies known laws of physics.

That you shouldn't make something that is already faster than C classes even faster_ How does that not unbalance things_ I'm not saying give everything a flat speed at all weights. I'm saying the blighters are already fast enough. A well played A class can dodge fire all day. They don't need to go any faster than they currently do.

LordofNosgoth, on October 30 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Regarding cloak, I always just assumed there was an ability gauge (there usually is in games like this) so rather than seeing if I can spam my abilities, I find myself waiting long periods between uses out of habit. Perhaps I am wrong in this. If so, then cloak may very well be highly effective.
**Also of note: Quite a few the games I play regularly use a cloak or cloak-like ability; while each game has it's own way of managing it, it's usually easy to adjust seeing others through cloak, since most developers usually implement a way of seeing people/things - however slightly - through cloak, I've become pretty doggone good at seeing through it. Not seeing through cloak isn't my complaint. Unless they're far away, it actually attracts my attention rather than divert it.**

You haven't answered my question and I still don't know what your issue is... You don't know how it works_

LordofNosgoth, on October 30 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Truth be told: I'd be okay if NONE of the suggested changes were made for sharpshooter... if I had the ability to switch my primary weapon in-game from slug to the SA Hawkins. Truth is, it would be nice to be able to switch the primaries on the fly for the other 2 classes I've played too. Give it a more dynamic feel; let me change playstyle on the fly should the occasion require it rather than having to hope I get it right based on... what_ Instinct_ Map layout_ Spawn points_ God's Will_ Yeah, none of those have worked real well.

You clearly are not happy with your loadout as I stated in my first reply. I do not understand your approach to the game. Playstyle is independent of all the factors you have listed. Playstyle is how you use what have infront of you and to what effect. Some people like to rush in all guns blazing, some people like to keep a distance between them and the foe. Some even use long ranged sniping weapons to harass the enemy forcing them to retreat or take cover allowing flanking manoeuvres. Different maps will benefit different playstyles. Where you spawn has no impact on this. Once the spawn locations are resolved you shouldn't have any issues with dying instantly. It's a known issue that has been brought up many times before.

[LordofNosgoth]

I'm not going to argue with you, since it bears no fruit.

You don't agree, which is all ever need be said. Instead you posted a wall of text making the assumption that my intention was to be rude - which it wasn't; more to infer that by your simply skimming over what was posted rather than reading and reflecting upon it (which is what people used to do when they read) and as such drew incorrect conclusions than what the original post was intended for you to draw. That was your mistake.
My mistake was making the assumptions (2 of them): A) That you would read my post, determine the intellectual - rather than contentious - spirit it was written in, re-read the original, think upon it and see why I might see things the way I do. And...
That in this forum I was free to post any potentially helpful, constructive suggestions I desired without fear of reproach from people desiring to exhibit less than admirable behavior who think that, because THEY feel something is fine the way it is, that others aren't allowed to have any different opinions of any kind because they're "n00bs". Excuse me for thinking we were all intelligent, thoughtful, respectful adults here.

If you felt, in any way, insulted by anything I posted, then you have my sincerest apologies. But I disagree with you. Which, last time I checked, I was free to do.

And you are wrong about playstyle. "Play style" isn't something a player takes into a game beforehand (good players don't, anyway) it's something they adjust - preferably - on the fly based on the situation at hand and the tools at their disposal. Offering players more elegant ways of doing this has, historically, always been a good idea.

You are welcome to disagree. Without me saying - or insinuating - that you are less of a player or person because you do. That's not how I roll.

[Subdivision]

That's fine. Everyone disagrees from time to time. It's the natural way of things. I was just trying to give some feedback on what you had put as it seemed to me that you hadn't got to grips with the class and that I've found it to be used highly effectively. Your comment telling Immie to learn to read though was too much for me. You can ask people to re-read what you have written but the way you phrased that is rude. I am not insulted in any way by anything you have written personally. The idea of this part of the forum is for feedback and debate on what people think. The process of giving constructive​ feedback is saying more than I disagree. I gave my reasoning's for why. Your points seem well considered but as I stated I was merely trying to suggest you could work around your problems. Maybe you can't. That doesn't matter. I didn't mean any offence. I agree that there are issues with spawning in TDM and DM and we need clan tags. I stated and I'll quote myself here:

Subdivision, on October 30 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Nice constructive thought but most of the points you have raised feel like playstyle gripes to me.

Fair enough if we don't agree on the definition of play style but that is my sentiment towards your original post. If I hadn't elaborated on my points I wouldn't have been happy with leaving feedback. I apologise if my replies have come across as harsh or offensive in any way. I did not intend so and nor were any of my comments ever meant to be taken personally.

To give this ramble a brief analogy, if you said to me and I don't like this chicken, I say have you tried a different sauce, you try a different sauce and like it and thus we have reached a solution without changing the chicken. To me, despite disagreements, it is still a healthy debate so long as things do not become personal, spiteful or sidetracked.

[LordofNosgoth]

Subdivision, on October 31 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

To give this ramble a brief analogy, if you said to me and I don't like this chicken, I say have you tried a different sauce, you try a different sauce and like it and thus we have reached a solution without changing the chicken. To me, despite disagreements, it is still a healthy debate so long as things do not become personal, spiteful or sidetracked.

Agreed.

However, on the note of my Chicken: I like it to have a bit of spice to it, to enhance the meat. I want it to stick to my ribs yet still leave me hungering for more of the savory flavor. At the moment, my chicken is a bit bland, dry and a little hard to swallow. Hence my suggestions - numerous as they were - for a more flavorful rotisserie.

Note: You use sauce on your chicken__ That's downright un-American! You need to learn to spice and fry that bad boy! (jk)

[Subdivision]

LordofNosgoth, on October 31 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Note: You use sauce on your chicken__ That's downright un-American! You need to learn to spice and fry that bad boy! (jk)

That's just not cricket! (Traditional British saying)

[bad_robot]

I've had some good games with a sharpshooter. Close range vs a B or A class, it was an even match. Most of the time I lost it though. What annoys me the most is the inaccuracy!! Firing while moving is ridiculous! My aim is CLEARLY ON TARGET...why am I missing_! Do sharpshooter arms not have stabilization features___

[Houruck]

LordofNosgoth, on October 29 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

...Sharpshooters are wildly ineffective...

I disagree.
It is harder to flee with less fuel capacity but you need to keep your distance and use your surroundings. The sniper weapons are also deadly in close and mid range if you can use them properly. I play mostly with Sharpshooter and it is not rare that I am the MVP or have the best K/D ratio (not to mention assist with this class). Also it is funny how this class is slower but most of the time I collect and deliver the most energy in Siege.

bad_robot, on October 31 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

...Firing while moving is ridiculous...

You need to adjust the aim to your and your enemy's movement. Saibot also can be useful in closer range if you use quick zooms and you can not miss when you do a surprise buttsecks. :-]

Edited by Houruck, October 31 2012 - 06:53 AM.

[Inny]

https://www.dropbox....ntitled - 5.jpg

Sharpshooter is bad_ uhm...
I've never been the camping type. I take my sharpshooter up to a brawlers face, pop my F, and go crazy. I'll let my pilot record there speak for itself.