24 replies to this topic

[RedVan]

Items are single use, until you die and respawn.

Should this be changed to allow for reloading either through an inventory system or ammo drops from kills_

Obvious restrictions would be in place, for example, you cannot deploy more than one turret, and you cannot restock a turret until yours dies.  etc etc...

I find myself using my items, then living for a looooooooooong time, and not having any more items.  I think it would be nice to be able to go back to base in say, siege or missile modes, to restock my items.

Or perhaps an ingame credit system where you can spend credits to purchase more items after you've used them up_

There would be no increase in total items per moment of time, but it would allow people to use items more often w/o having to die to get more.

[DarkPulse]

I would say that the only way this could be remotely fair is if you tuck away two "Garage" spots inside each map, where a player can go and get resupplied and, if he so chooses, swap out his primary weapons. Obviously, the risks with this is that people can set up traps there and the like, which is the risk you take in going to get resupplied.

Otherwise, keep things as they are.

Edited by DarkPulse, October 31 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[zenji]

no. it gives losing teams a better chance to catch up. i like more competition.

[Puru]

I don't see this working with the engine as it is. I can only see trying to implement it meaning way too many problems, like it destroying you to put you back in said "garage".

Currency_ I don't think that should be included since we already rely on two types. We're not a MOBA. Unless I was fighting gigantic mechanical Sorakas or something, I'd rather not need to rely on GOOOOLD of any sort.

[HugeGuts]

Since there will eventually be a support mech, my idea is to have their special ability be an item-replenishing supply drop. To make things interesting, the enemy team could somehow hijack it and use it for themselves.

Edited by HugeGuts, October 31 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[Coldrew]

I find myself surviving a lot as well, often popping my items at the start of a match to take that early game advantage. But prefer the challenge of knowing that my enemy has items at their disposal. A trade off to performing well. They get their stuff back for try two. I have to be more vigilant and out pilot my foe.

I wouldn't mind being able to cash in kill streaks or a large sum of assists to respawn one use of a single item during a given life.

[BeefC4ke]

I say no and i have a few reasons.

1. If one team is dominating the other then reloading gives them more advantage while the current system allows a team that is dying a lot access to fresh items.

2. Items are pretty powerful and should be used wisely. If they're easy to go reload on then I would also vote that they become less powerful.

There may be more reasons but I really think the current system is best with the way the items are balanced.

[M3drano]

BeefC4ke, on October 31 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

2. Items are pretty powerful and should be used wisely. If they're easy to go reload on then I would also vote that they become less powerful.

This. If there is someone on the losing team that knows how to take advantage of their items he can go and turn the odds of the game.

[Arcana13]

inb4 emp spamzors everywhere.

Might also consider that equipping items to a mech is not free and will widen the gap between newbs and seasoned players/vets during a game (it's never good to scare away newbs... but it's ok to scare away n00bs : )).

also what beef said 1+

Edited by Arcana13, November 01 2012 - 01:49 AM.

[WAVER]

DarkPulse, on October 31 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

I would say that the only way this could be remotely fair is if you tuck away two "Garage" spots inside each map, where a player can go and get resupplied and, if he so chooses, swap out his primary weapons. Obviously, the risks with this is that people can set up traps there and the like, which is the risk you take in going to get resupplied.

Otherwise, keep things as they are.

- make the garage spots "immune" to traps setting .

Edited by WAVER, November 01 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[DER3Z]

I dont think we need reloading of items, when i run out thats it, i just use my second and primary weapons. Theres a time and a place to use your items. When you die you get them again.

[Dyson]

How about the items in your inventory reload after X number of kills.  That way you can't just hide until they respawn.  If you have to go out and get 5 or 10 kills to get more grenades, you will either die trying or you'll have earned those grenades.

[The_Silencer]

For the moment.. I'd rather consider dropping and picking up items between team mates only.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I seem to do fairly well, not running out of my items at all often, even in matches where I kill many people and die very little.
The only time I regularly run out of items is in pure Deathmatch, because everyone is out to get me.

I view items as being a sort of "ace up my sleeve". They're used to get me out of sticky situations or give me a overwhelming edge to quickly even the odds.
If I use them up and keep on going for a while_ That just means I've got to be more careful, because I no longer have any little tricks to give me an advantage.
And I like that sort of test of skill.

[NIGHTRAV3N]

I also think the current system works well. I used to quickly turn towards using my equipment when first playing HAWKEN, but after getting better at the game I would reserve my stack until I absolutely needed it to survive.
After playing some matches and getting a better feel for the game you start to develop a sense of discipline on when to use the equipment at the right opportunity. AsianJoyKiller is right on how resource management can be a test of skill for a pilot, especially when using up your items .

[Subdivision]

In a balanced game with roughly evenly matched teams you can not expect to avoid dying long enough that depleting all items would be a significant issue. Should the event arise where one team outmatches another, not having items shouldn't be an issue. These are the only two instances I can think you would run out. They are additional tools you can use to help you out in a fight and better players will know when it is best to use them. If there is a system for replenishing items then problems may occur. How many items can you replenish, if you replenish them, what happens to the items on the field. Could a team flood a control point in turrets by ferrying them to the front line_ Can a player pick up additional emp charges and repeatedly catch players out who may think they are out_ Sure if you live for a long time, and as a C-class brawler player this happened a lot for me, you run out and spend a lot of time without items but reloading items isn't that necessary in that instance as if you aren't dying you don't really need them. At least that is what I have found

[NIGHTRAV3N]

After my earlier post I watched some old skool HAWKEN footage and I noticed in one of the footage there was this walk-up garage area in the base to purchase specific equipment like turrets and shields.. Wonder what ever happened to that idea_

[Roundlay]

Hawken's gameplay loop is often times fairly brief, so I've found that the best strategy is to use any equipment early on in a spawn. This, hopefully, helps in moving towards an early team advantage and ensures that one doesn't get taken out having not contributed to the team effort in some way.

Whenever a single life draws on, however, I find myself wondering if I should play much more carelessly, take more risks, or even run into a losing engagement in order to resupply in light of any downed equipment, allowing me to later redeploy equipment in more appropriate places on the map.

On the one hand, the added ability to resupply equipment during a match is a useful one as it removes this motivation to search out pointless engagements for the sake of more equipment, but on the other hand this promotes a type of play style that seems at odds with the less "high strategy" and more action based gameplay encouraged within the game.

Knowing that equipment is limited encourages one to be analytical about ideal placement and to learn something about each map. This supply and demand affords each piece of equipment more weight and importance throughout a spawn. Ultimately, my experience tells me that the current equipment allocation system is functional and promotes more interesting play styles than the alternative.

Edited by Roundlay, November 04 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[RedVan]

I'm not one to punish good players personally.  If a player can last all map without dying, I see no reason that he shouldn't be able to get more items.

If the other team is just so bad as to get dominated, allowing the winning side to replenish items isn't really going to matter.  They'll win anyway.  So I wouldn't worry about this ability causing an imbalance.  On the other hand, I've been on the side getting wrecked, but, I was still staying alive myself long term.  I was the only one in the match staying alive, from either team.  So the ability for me to replenish items could have actually balanced it out more.  For every time you can say it'll make the match imbalanced, you can come up with another way that it would re-balance it.

What I meant with ingame "currency" is not related to XP or MP.  It would be similar to MWLL where you earn credits ingame to spend on items in a single match.  It's nothing permanent.  You lose all the credits when the match ends.

[AsianJoyKiller]

RedVan, on November 04 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I'm not one to punish good players personally.  If a player can last all map without dying, I see no reason that he shouldn't be able to get more items.

If the other team is just so bad as to get dominated, allowing the winning side to replenish items isn't really going to matter.  They'll win anyway.  So I wouldn't worry about this ability causing an imbalance.  On the other hand, I've been on the side getting wrecked, but, I was still staying alive myself long term.  I was the only one in the match staying alive, from either team.  So the ability for me to replenish items could have actually balanced it out more.  For every time you can say it'll make the match imbalanced, you can come up with another way that it would re-balance it.

What I meant with ingame "currency" is not related to XP or MP.  It would be similar to MWLL where you earn credits ingame to spend on items in a single match.  It's nothing permanent.  You lose all the credits when the match ends.

Honestly, if I could restock items, I'd probably never die and get a ton more kills while I'm at it.

Also, Tribes: Ascend has a similar currency mechanics.
Getting kills or performing certain actions awards credits. Credits can be used on calldowns like a resupply station.

Thing is, I think items would have to be pretty pricey to balance things out.
I mean, otherwise, I could just get a few kills and buy a new healing orb whenever I needed one. Or I'd just spam the fuzz out of EMPs and HEs.