18 replies to this topic

[NIGHTRAV3N]

I'm here to not discuss the weapon balance or weapon suggestions in HAWKEN, but the balance of the 'weapon pool' of the game. From my experience with HAWKEN I feel like the weapon arsenal of a pilot should be looked over for future weapon introductions.

What I want to touch base on is the arsenal balance of rapid fire--precision--launcher--burst shot based weapons.

What is your current thoughts on the weapon pool of HAWKEN_ Are you happy with the current iteration, or would you rather see more of a specific kind of weapon in the coming beta_

So far I feel like it isn't TOO unbalanced. There seems to be a nice mix of launcher/explosive and rapid fire type weapons, but only a couple spread shot and precision based weapons. With CBE2 on the horizon I would like to see more burst/spread shot-like and precision based weapons. So far only a couple rifles are introduced and more weapons like the flak cannon seem to be missing. I want to see Adhesive Games implement some surprising intuitive arsenal in CBE2 like the torch repair-launcher to come.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I'm liking the variety I see so far, and I assume we'll see more in the future.

Also, bit off topic, but I'd pay for cool cosmetic weapon variants.

[NotKjell]

There is pretty good variety at the moment, though I'd really like to see 1 more explosive primary and 1 more bullet secondary. Having 3 explosive secondary, 2 bullet and 1 repair torch might be a nice balance. I'd also like to see more EOC-repeater types weapons. The EOC is a bit underpowered at the moment, but being a mine laying weapon is pretty cool. Primaries with extra/strange uses would be cool.

[NIGHTRAV3N]

I like the variety so far as well and I know it was just the first CBE, but I'm sure AG will do us fine with the new weapons to come.

DUDE. I would like to see some purchasable weapon skin variants too! I just don't want to see the lame camo-skin for weapons that seems to be a trend now..

[AsianJoyKiller]

One thing, and I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier, that I would like to see is some sort of rocket pod weapon.
A launcher that carries a dozen or more unguided rockets. They would be relatively low damage in relation to other explosive weapons, but would allow for rapid fire.

I keep having other ideas run through my head, but I'm not convinced they could be implemented in a decent manner.
Things like:
Flamethrower (Primary) - Low short range sustained DPS. Low DPS offset by somewhat impairing target sight and affecting target heat somehow.
Tesla Coil - Mid range bolt of electricity. Very accurate. Moderate charge/reload speed. This would be a weapon that sits somewhere between the Slug and Sabot. (While I think it would be cool for the electricity to have a secondary effect similar to the EMP, I just can't see how that could be balanced, because EMP on demand is just plain OP if the effect were to have any sort of meaningful duration, any sort of % to EMP is a RNG mechanic. And RNG is bad and should die in a fire.)
Artillery cannon (Secondary) - Large splash, moderate damage, slow reload (problem is, I just see something like this thing being spammed, and I'm against spam... unless it's actual edible SPAM.)

[Rotaken]

I want a gatling gun with 3 pipes. Not sure about the damage maybe, as a skin for vulcan. Like the AsianJoyKillers idea for coil gunwapon. I'd also like to see option to put same lowdmg gunwaponz to both hands (smg ar etc). Gunwapon was my friends idea

[NIGHTRAV3N]

I have also thought about a missile pod weapon would be great in HAWKEN. The tesla coil precision weapon sounds pretty cool too. I want to see a new precision weapon of some sort in CBE2. I actually had an idea about a MECHOID COMPOUND BOW that is built into the limb of a mech and could unfold when ready to use. Something like that is unique and I haven't seen a mech with a compound bow before haha. I could see it be balanced into the gameplay relatively easy and the tip of the round could be explosive and have small splash damage. Think of it as a "cousin" to the heat gun and you could charge the round for higher velocity. The explosive tip could have some kind of blinking light indicator so you can see it coming and where it is stuck on the mech/environment. Could be in between the slug-sabot but have properties similar to the heatgun-EDC repeater.

[NotKjell]

There was a lengthy thread during alpha similar to this, and yeah the rocket-pod was an Idea I really liked. It could be a primary or secondary, though I like the idea of a primary. High DPS (90-100) in return for bullet travel time. Low splash, similar heat to AR and maybe 2 or 3 rockets per second.

I made a lengthy post about the flamethrower, and the tl;dr version is I don't like a weapon that messes with the opponents heat, as a weapon that is thematically a flamethrower should. However, the most balanced version I felt was a weapon with DPS lower, but comparable to SMG/AR. Have a poor heat-to-damage ratio, so trading popshots with other weapons is bad, enough heat on the enemy so that in a head-to-head fight their heat-to-damage ratio becomes worse than yours.

A laser could be cool, as could a tesla coil. The issue is overlap with HEAT, Slug, SA hawkins and Sabot. It's nice that each weapon in hawken does function differently

[AsianJoyKiller]

NotKjell, on November 03 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

I made a lengthy post about the flamethrower, and the tl;dr version is I don't like a weapon that messes with the opponents heat, as a weapon that is thematically a flamethrower should. However, the most balanced version I felt was a weapon with DPS lower, but comparable to SMG/AR. Have a poor heat-to-damage ratio, so trading popshots with other weapons is bad, enough heat on the enemy so that in a head-to-head fight their heat-to-damage ratio becomes worse than yours.

A laser could be cool, as could a tesla coil. The issue is overlap with HEAT, Slug, SA hawkins and Sabot. It's nice that each weapon in hawken does function differently

Yep. Exactly why I put them under the category I did.

[DarkPulse]

I generally like the weapons, though I feel the Assault Rifle for Assault Mechs is, at times, a little too accurate (and/or doesn't kick up enough heat), and that the SA Hawkins is pretty much a peashooter that needs something to distinguish it from a poor man's Assault Rifle.

There's definitely room for other weapons, though. I could see weapons that are melee range but do devastating damage, for example.

[Crimson_Corsair]

Definitely agree about the SA Hawkens. It feels like an all-round gun, so it doesn't have a home. There are better weapon options at both close and long range so it feels redundant.

I think it works best as a mid-range gun, All it really needs is a good secondary weapon to complement its optimal range.
Can't wait to see all the new weapons and mechs that the devs have in store for us.

[DarkPulse]

Crimson_Corsair, on November 04 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Definitely agree about the SA Hawkens. It feels like an all-round gun, so it doesn't have a home. There are better weapon options at both close and long range so it feels redundant.

I think it works best as a mid-range gun, All it really needs is a good secondary weapon to complement its optimal range.
Can't wait to see all the new weapons and mechs that the devs have in store for us.

I feel the Slug Rifle is much better at that, though. Fires a little slower, but it's got more pop, and it's pretty much just as accurate (if not moreso).

[NotKjell]

SA hawkins has a decently higher DPS than the Slug Rifle if I remember correctly. Don't have the burst damage abilty, but is easier t ouse at all ranges while giving a good sniping option.

[Tezkat]

The SA Hawkins isn't a bad weapon, but it's a jack of all trades gun--which means it's isn't particularly good at anything, either.

On a Sharpshooter, however, I much prefer the Slug Rifle for both close and long ranged combat. When sniping, you have very brief attack windows and thus want to load up on burst DPS. Somewhat counterintuitively, I also prefer it for brawling. Even though the SA Hawkins has much higher raw DPS than the Slug Rifle, you can't out-DPS someone with an Assault Rifle or Point-D Vulcan anyway and will simply lose a stand up fight, so the most effective strategy seems to be doing the squirrel thing and restricting line of sight during weapon cooldown. i.e. Maximizing burst DPS is still the best option when shooting people point blank in the face.

Edited by Tezkat, November 04 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[NotKjell]

Tezkat, on November 04 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

The SA Hawkins isn't a bad weapon, but it's a jack of all trades gun--which means it's isn't particularly good at anything, either.

On a Sharpshooter, however, I much prefer the Slug Rifle for both close and long ranged combat. When sniping, you have very brief attack windows and thus want to load up on burst DPS. Somewhat counterintuitively, I also prefer it for brawling. Even though the SA Hawkins has much higher raw DPS than the Slug Rifle, you can't out-DPS someone with an Assault Rifle or Point-D Vulcan anyway and will simply lose a stand up fight, so the most effective strategy seems to be doing the squirrel thing and restricting line of sight during weapon cooldown. i.e. Maximizing burst DPS is still the best option when shooting people point blank in the face.

Agreed. One thing I would like on the hawkins is a bit different sound/look/feel to it. Make it feel more like dual autocannons or something instead of just another gun shooting bullets. A loud 'thud' with each shot. Maybe drop firing rate to go along with this from about 4 bullet per second to 3. A small buff to overall DPS would be nice.

[Tezkat]

I've found that the SA Hawkins also has a problem with damage per heat. Especially vs heavier mechs, it often seemed the case that you run out of heat capacity before you finish whittling down an enemy's armour. There also seems to be less synergy with the Sharpshooter's innate damage buff ability.

Perhaps it would be more effective on an A class mech_

[DarkPulse]

Probably would be most "at home" on the Infiltrator, which is supposed to be sneaky and lightly armed/armored.

[AsianJoyKiller]

DarkPulse, on November 05 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Probably would be most "at home" on the Infiltrator, which is supposed to be sneaky and lightly armed/armored.

I don't know. The Infil seems to be more about burst damage, judging by the weapons they keep giving it and the nature of it's ability.
Sustained DPS seems more in the vein of the Beserker.

[DarkPulse]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 05 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

I don't know. The Infil seems to be more about burst damage, judging by the weapons they keep giving it and the nature of it's ability.
Sustained DPS seems more in the vein of the Beserker.

True enough, but the SA Hawkins doesn't do nearly enough damage for it to be worthwhile on the Berserker.

If they beef it up, perhaps...