16 replies to this topic

[NotKjell]

With the growth of E-sports and all the previous talk about Hawken trying to become a major one, I was curious what the now larger Closed-Beta 2 populous thought. If you're not familiar with other e-sports and have questions or concerns please voice them here. If you are familiar with parts of the scene and have thing you'd like to see from Hawken that'd be great too.

Go e-sports.

Edit: Questions weren't multiple choice. Also polls being limited to 3 questions with 20 answers each is weird. Something like 8 and 8 feels like it would be nicer.

Edited by NotKjell, November 08 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I'd definitely want robust spectator features, and a demo replay would be just awesome to have.

I can say for sure that I'd be keeping up with any major esports events, and I'd probably join the competition on an amature level (I don't really have the time, skill or inclination for professional comp).

[bac9]

I feel that e-sports is an incredibly niche thing and frankly, I don't see this game gaining popularity in that scene, nor the point for developers to try.

Spectating is sometimes fun and watching experienced players is interesting, but the whole thing with tournaments, pro gamers and cash prizes is just, I don't know, so small and unimportant. I have a feeling that importance and prospects of e-sport are incredibly overrated.

Still, stuff like leaderboards and league divisions in multiplayer is beneficial for the game (see Starcraft 2) and I have nothing against that. : )

Edited by bac9, November 08 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[thepeopleselbow]

Any multiplayer game is a candidate for e-sport.  Apply the same planning you would to pro hockey etc.  It'll be fun to watch matches and follow players / teams if there's competition.  With the different mechs available it'd need a good paper-rock-scissors kind of balance, league-play based rules will help that.

The matches have to be close.  Blowouts are boring irl and in game.  It also has to be watchable, by that I mean that the spectator mode has to be very cleverly done and even beautiful to watch during key moments.

In a time long past, I used to gamecast q3f matches.  I'd prefer to have both free-floating spectator and fps player-eyes modes to view from.  Free-float gives you that birds eye view to comprehend the whole battlefield, and fps view is great to experience someone else's play style.  Everyone moves just a little bit differently.  It's often educational to see a superior player's viewpoint.

[Tezkat]

I'm kinda exhausted right now because I was up at 5AM watching the GSL, so yeah... it's safe to say I love eSports.

I'm excited to see Hawken succeed as an eSport, and I know the devs are too. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they come up with for their spectator UI and features.


Since it's conveniently integrated into the poll this time, I'd like to reiterate my support for bumping team size down to 5v5 for competitive play (or at least trying that out to see how it works). Although it's mostly hypothetical at the moment, I think 5v5 could be the best balance between the exciting gameplay we see in 6v6 and managing finances/logistics for competitive teams and tournaments, as well as making the job a bit easier for casters/observers.

[NotKjell]

Nice to see such interest. And yeah, the more I thought about it the more I think 4v4 or 5v5 would be nice for tournaments. It wouldn't be a different game for a specator to watch, but it would cause more 1v1 fight and makes teams have to spread themselves a little more thinly.

Quote

I feel that e-sports is an incredibly niche thing and frankly, I don't see this game gaining popularity in that scene, nor the point for developers to try.

Uh.. I mean there's only a couple million or so viewers for each MLG and million-dollar prize pools. And look at like brood war - that game lasted 15 years because of E-sports. I'm sure the developers would love to have even a piece of that longevity.

[chipeloi]

The thoughts i have:(and yes sorry these are my opinions, by no means everyone's)
The problems hawken is facing:

1: the screen quality is ... to low to get mutch intrest (meaning that people like watching a game that is easy to watch and clear) to be blunt most of my friends who ive shown the game to all go: damn thats an ugly game.

2: the action is fast, realy fast so trying to keep up with a player can be frustrating as most of the to player operate on speeds that the "normal" people find disturbing, we play at an instinctive level, we fire at something that because of our expirence we think is going to be there, say someone dodging around a opstacle we will react and chose left or right for him to come out of, and fire there.
Most people especialy with the speeds that this game plays will find it confusing.

3: the layout of the maps is awe inspiring, so many level so many corners, so mutch confusion, even in the cockpit its hard at times to see where your going, let alone if your jumping from one player to the next.

4: seeing something in the distance is pretty dificult without the target lock, if its red i'll shoot it, but it doesn't really make trilling tv if the audince can't see what your shooting.

Just my two cents, will add more after a few more games.

[Dreizehn]

As a F2P, where levels and whatnot give you an advantage, how does that work as an E-Sport though_ Will there be a Hawken Sports ver. at tournaments where players get an even loadout_

[NotKjell]

Dreizehn, on November 09 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

As a F2P, where levels and whatnot give you an advantage, how does that work as an E-Sport though_ Will there be a Hawken Sports ver. at tournaments where players get an even loadout_

Well leveling up is rather fast, and considering how much you practice and play the game, anyone who is actually going to try and play will likely have everything they need unlocked. I played battlefield game competitively and that game had an insane amount of time before you would unlock max rank. Yet nearly everyone playing competitively was max rank because of how much you train. The other option though is simply server mods or something that unlock everything for players laying on them. Tournaments would just be played on those specific servers.

chipeloi, on November 09 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

The thoughts i have:(and yes sorry these are my opinions, by no means everyone's)
The problems hawken is facing:

1: the screen quality is ... to low to get mutch intrest (meaning that people like watching a game that is easy to watch and clear) to be blunt most of my friends who ive shown the game to all go: damn thats an ugly game.

2: the action is fast, realy fast so trying to keep up with a player can be frustrating as most of the to player operate on speeds that the "normal" people find disturbing, we play at an instinctive level, we fire at something that because of our expirence we think is going to be there, say someone dodging around a opstacle we will react and chose left or right for him to come out of, and fire there.
Most people especialy with the speeds that this game plays will find it confusing.

3: the layout of the maps is awe inspiring, so many level so many corners, so mutch confusion, even in the cockpit its hard at times to see where your going, let alone if your jumping from one player to the next.

4: seeing something in the distance is pretty dificult without the target lock, if its red i'll shoot it, but it doesn't really make trilling tv if the audince can't see what your shooting.

Just my two cents, will add more after a few more games.

1: Huh, how many have you showed it too_ More than the people I know, every Hawken article on any gaming site I've ever seen has had nothing but praise for the graphics/art style. I mean the biggest thing with the first few trailers that blew everyone away was how pretty it looked.

For 2, 3, 4: That's where advanced spectating comes into play. No FPS could survive as a spectated e-sport if your only option was to see the screen of a player. Fortunately the devs have made some mention of various things they plan and are putting good thought into the issue of keeping track of an FPS.

And on that note, is there any dev that would mind shedding light on any planned or talked about spectating features_

[Animal_Man]

We need to make this happen!! The community needs to grow and blow-up. Free Mech FPS!! Spread the word!!!

[mobiusxg5]

Alot of Esports supported games basically had  very big popularity behind it.. Starcraft 2 is in the whole world.. But mostly in korea. League of legends grew so fast and again the fanbase around the world again mostly korea..  halo was a huge game for The US because of MLG..

Games that really didn't make good esports were games that had no good demo record features or spectating features.. Now would I like to see these guys make some world tournaments like Starcraft 2 and League of legends oh heck yea..

Lets not jump into esports right away let this game grow more Its way too early to say this game should be esports.. its fun to play and to watch lets just see how things go during and after launch

When Hawken becomes a mecha giant in Esports then I'm going to grab me some popcorn and watch the great metal mashing Battles..

[Tarmack]

The tools have to support it.  And not just basic tools.  Comprehensive demo recording, free flying spectator, Unique GUI that makes players more obvious, visibility through buildings/walls, easy jump to player, perhaps a jump to "combat" like Starcraft has.  The people who will commentate these matches need to not have to fight with the game to make it work.

[z121231211]

My only knowledge with esports is from fighting games (mostly Blazblue) and I don't see how it couldn't be. It just needs a large amount of competitive players or teams and include a spectator option. Then popularity will determine how far it goes.

This thread is making me think there's some esports committee that has to approve whether a game is worthy or not.

[techno_destructo]

z121231211, on November 12 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

This thread is making me think there's some esports committee that has to approve whether a game is worthy or not.

All it requires is an active player community as these things sort of develop on their own. Support from the developer side makes this much easier for the community to organize and manage. Basically if you build it, they will come.

[Manoloco]

Also dedicated servers are very important for e-sports, specially for fast action FPS shooters, (Quake 3 arena is a prime example), even for Counter-Strike that is a tad slower than Q3 required dedicated servers, excellent latency is a must in fast FPS.

I would like this option also because i play from South America (Peru to be specific), it would definitely help expand the game´s reach.

I have some friends i showed Hawken to, some are already playing and liked it, and some refuse because of ping, they are mostly used to play in local competitive level, and anything that goes over 60 of ping scares the hell out of them (they mostly play CS 1.6 and used to play Q3)

The best South American Servers for us in other games are in Argentina, ping goes around 70 for us in them.

[RedVan]

Siege is going to be awesome comp

[BlackCephie]

I'm with AJK. It'd be cool, I'd probably make a clan with my friends and play at a semi-pro kind of level, but not enough time to go after it on a pro competitive level. I do think Hawken has a chance to succeed in terms of esports though.