22 replies to this topic

[DM30]

Now I understand that this is a bit of a complicated issue due to balancing reward vs time invested, but I am of the opinion that the in-game Hawken points that a player is awarded through gameplay are dished out a bit on the slow side. For example, I recently played 2 death matches and won both, and yet I was only awarded barely more than 100 Hawken points for each match. At that rate, if I wanted to buy a new mech, I would need to win 90 death matches (which can add up to well over 1000 minutes of gameplay) without buying a single piece of equipment for mechs already in my inventory, and that's only if I win every single match. If I was in the middle of the pack making about 60 points per game, it would take way longer, and I'm sure I'm not the only player who doesn't have that kind of time to invest in the game.

I'm not saying that gaining points should be effortless, because that would make the game boring and would render the ability to pay for points useless. However, on the other hand I don't think the developpers want people to get frustrated because it takes them unseemly amounts of time to get enough points for a new mech and lose interest in the game for that reason.

So, touchy subject, I know, but if the rate of awarding Hawken points after matches could be increased just SLIGHTLY, I feel like it would make the game more rewarding for players who are unwilling/unable to pay for points without making it too easy for them at the same time.

[DarkPulse]

If you think they're bad now, they're double what they were in CBE1.

That said, the devs obviously want to incentivize buying Meteor Points over the Hawken Points - it's the whole basis behind the "Freemium" model, after all. However, since we're in beta, we can't exactly buy Meteor Points just yet...

I do think the Hawken Points rate is probably fine; the most I'd want to see it boosted is another 50% tops (I had said it should've been increased 2-3x from CBE1; it was doubled, so another 50% would make it 3x) because if it goes much higher, there will be little point to buying Meteor Points.

Example:

Let's say you play a Siege match. You do pretty good, your team wins, takes about 25 minutes.

• CBE1: You would get about 125 Hawken Points. HP doubler can make this 250.
  
• CBE2: You would get about 250 Hawken Points. HP doubler can make this 500.
  
• Cost for a mech is still the same (9200 Hawken Points, 1030 Meteor Points), so...
  
• Matches to earn in CBE1: 73.6 without doubler, 36.8 with doubler
  
• Matches to earn in CBE2: 36.8 without doubler, 18.4 with doubler

Simply put, if they doubled it again, it'd be very unsustainable with the booster (18.4 without the doubler, 9.2 matches with it) so really, I don't think we'll see much more than a 50% increase, to 3x the CBE1 rate. At that, it'd be 375 without the booster, and 750 with - 24.5 matches without, 12.26 matches with, so I'm not sure if they'll even make it that level. Higher than that would basically skew the balance from "buy mech with MP" to "Just get the booster and play a few games."

Simply put, the idea is you either pay with time, or you pay with money. The devs obviously want to incentivize the money option, but they also need to make sure the "no-money" option, while longer, is still viable. They're at about the sweet spot in that regard, but there could definitely be a call for a 50% increase. No higher though.

Also, we don't know if they plan to do stuff like free double XP/Points weekends or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 08 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[Shkval]

An extra 50% would be nice indeed. The current rate is still very low.

[Saunders]

One of the biggest things we're testing during these closed beta tests is the rate at which players progress.  

We also agree that it's probably still too low.  For closed beta 2 we just did a straight 2x increase over CB1, but you'll see some other adjustments and new systems for closed beta 3 and beyond  

[z121231211]

I remember getting a little over 100 points every match in CBE1. I'm now usually getting under that (and that's with 2x gain). There's definitely more to HP gain that just having a general multiplier isn't going to fix. Hopefully they're checking for that.

[DarkPulse]

Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

One of the biggest things we're testing during these closed beta tests is the rate at which players progress.  

We also agree that it's probably still too low.  For closed beta 2 we just did a straight 2x increase over CB1, but you'll see some other adjustments and new systems for closed beta 3 and beyond  

Good to hear.

Now if I can just get some new Meteor Points so that I don't have to grind like mad for this beta phase, that'd be swell.

That said, I was a bit off in my calculations - an average Seige match if it takes that long is only giving me about 150 Hawken Points... so yeah, it'd be grind city at this point.

I would say if the average round is 250-375 HP for a Siege Match of that length (without boosters) it'd be decent. But that's just my two mini-Lincolns.

[Elix]

Meteor Points were supposed to be poured on everyone for the beginning of CBT2, and this was missed. Expect it to be handled when the devs get to work tomorrow.

[Trelga]

Elix, on November 08 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Meteor Points were supposed to be poured on everyone for the beginning of CBT2, and this was missed. Expect it to be handled when the devs get to work tomorrow.

That's good to hear! I spent my last meteor points to try out the Rocketeer mech, quite frankly I'm disappointed in it. (Maybe I just suck with it).

[hitabowl]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

One of the biggest things we're testing during these closed beta tests is the rate at which players progress.  

We also agree that it's probably still too low.  For closed beta 2 we just did a straight 2x increase over CB1, but you'll see some other adjustments and new systems for closed beta 3 and beyond  

Off topic but new systems would very much be enjoyed. I feel like the changes from CBE1 to CBE2 were almost non-existent besides server stability (which was accomplished at the end of CBE1) and working settings (please don't get me wrong, fixed bugs is amazing but I feel like there is much more work to be done).

On topic: I agree that a slight increase in the amount of Hawken Points would be a good idea.

[DarkPulse]

Elix, on November 08 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Meteor Points were supposed to be poured on everyone for the beginning of CBT2, and this was missed. Expect it to be handled when the devs get to work tomorrow.

Yeah, I read that topic right after I replied in this one.

I should know; I'm the peculiar porpoise who started the topic.

[DM30]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

One of the biggest things we're testing during these closed beta tests is the rate at which players progress.  

We also agree that it's probably still too low.  For closed beta 2 we just did a straight 2x increase over CB1, but you'll see some other adjustments and new systems for closed beta 3 and beyond  

Well, I'm glad to hear that. I knew starting the thread that it was probably still a work in progress, but it's nice to hear that it's in consideration. It would be nice to be able to try a heavy mech before the open beta starts.

[thac0]

Now, lets just fix the fact that in many matches the XP is not retained.  Keep up the good work.

[ADH]Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

One of the biggest things we're testing during these closed beta tests is the rate at which players progress.  

We also agree that it's probably still too low.  For closed beta 2 we just did a straight 2x increase over CB1, but you'll see some other adjustments and new systems for closed beta 3 and beyond  

[Saunders]

Yeah, I noticed that the ability to "test drive" mechs isn't available for some reason.  We'll see if we can get that fixed for this closed beta.

On a semi-regular basis we'll be offering free mechs so you eventually can try them all prior to spending hawken points on them.  It sucks pouring a bunch of points into something that you have zero clue about!  

[Silk_Sk]

Making manual progression slow to incentivize people into purchasing MP is just bad business. If someone isn't spending their money, it's because they either are playing on a budget or just prefer to work for their upgrades. In both cases making progression slow will quickly turn them off from the game and make an overall smaller player-base. The choice to purchase MP should be entirely that: a choice. Forcing people to spend money in a F2P game will quickly kill it.

[DarkPulse]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 09 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Yeah, I noticed that the ability to "test drive" mechs isn't available for some reason.  We'll see if we can get that fixed for this closed beta.

On a semi-regular basis we'll be offering free mechs so you eventually can try them all prior to spending hawken points on them.  It sucks pouring a bunch of points into something that you have zero clue about!  

Yeah, I wish I had really tried Infiltrator when it was a test-drive.

It's why I planned to try out Infiltrator and Rocketeer this cycle, but I need Meteor Points before I can do that.

[Elix]

Only problem with a test drive: Can't add or change any internals until you buy it. At least, according to how it was implemented in CBT1.

[DarkPulse]

Well, it's well out of test drive, and so I'd be buying it straight out anyway if I wanted it. I'd have to.

[LordPorkSword]

Yeah the Hawken point progression seems rather slow.  I had access to a couple of Mechs and a bunch of upgrades in the alpha and have lost them for the betas and it's kinda painful now that I'm stuck with the basics with no chance of trying out the upgrades and it's taking too long to grind for Hawken points.
Dunno how but my son managed to get the Rocketeer Mech with hardly any game play at all_

Seeing it's still beta it'd be nice to have the Hawken rate bumped up so we can properly test the additional upgrade components and other Mechs before the 'great wipe' upon release!

All in all a damn fine game to play!! (and the kids are glued to my screen watching)  

[Hax]

You loose em all on tuesday so stop moaning , they do want you to pay for some of your upgrades you know. Grinding for enerthing will be SLOW I can imagine.

[D3thpool]

For the Future an increase of Points would be great.
As of now it takes kinda long to even buy basic Equipment.