30 replies to this topic

[DarkPulse]

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Is not learning curve, ur already shifting W A D and ur not supposed to shift S___ Thats just rediculous. Further more every other mech game I have played that has a boost, has had a revers boost but if players are against reverse boost that has been in every mech game that has a boost mode.. than I'd rather have no reverse boost and no 180 degree turn around or the game is broken.

So just because every other game has it, this one should too_

Sorry, things don't work that way.

Also, the game isn't "broken" just because you can't boost backward risk-free. Again, the way it works now penalizes you for making a bad tactical move - as it should. You stumble into a nest without precaution, then yes, you deserve to possible take a few bullets in the back; you should've had someone watch your six or else been more prepared, just in case.

The players who are best at this game actively incorporate not only 180s into their play, they also factor these into the fights. I've gotten my share of kills by chasing down people who made a bad decision and met the business end of my guns thanks to it.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

I should not have to sacrifice all boost to not have the engine turn my mech around when I try to keep my enemy at range and properly targeted.

You should also not zip into a bad situation without assessing your enemies. If you go there and there's 2-3 enemies on the point, why should you be able to zip back out, risk-free, and get to a distance where you can give them a free shot or two_

It's called strategy. The whole idea of the 180 turn is so that you can't just back out of a bad play and see where your enemies are.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

I should not have to releas shift in order to move backwards in fast action close quater combat.

While technically true, you also shouldn't be moving directly backwards either except for small amounts at a time. You should be using your side boosts to some extent, or 180-boost-180.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

You have to further understand that I do NOT turn around on an enemy in combat, I dot NOT run away. I have been trained that to turn ur back on an enemy is to die. I will never use it other than unintentionally or not in close combat. Further more when did games start "punishing players."

If you're the type who never runs away, I hope you never play me because I'd chew you up happily. There is nothing wrong with strategically running - the trick is to do it in a controlled manner. Just outright tucking your tail almost never works; it's all about making use of what you have. I have managed to kill people who chased me after I was wounded; I've even sacrificed one of my turrets to ensure I get into my base with a good amount of EUs in the tank in siege matches by making use of narrow pathways and making the turret directly block the enemy from following.

You need to train yourself out of that mindset, because if you're going to slug it out, you're going to lose more often than you win. The really good players know when to break off a fight; if you toe-to-toe it 24/7, you're going to lose some fights you could've won if you'd retreated a bit and prepared.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Now thrusting in reverse is just good sound and obvious tactic, its called KEEPING YOUR ENEMY AT RANGE and is indeed a standard military tactic. Turning tale and running is only standard to the french and last I herd the game is not french. Now I can see this feature being used to spot enemys and to snipe as the tactic in sniping is to fire and change possition emediatly.

Ah, but no, because then everyone would be using the classes that are accurate. Classes like Brawlers or Berserkers would be nearly useless because these classes are not about range. Some mechs will actually want to get close; the backdash prevents that nearly entirely, if it's just slapped in with no changes from forward boosting.

Number two, I'm sure more than the French have pulled off tactical retreats.

Number three, the game actually is in French. It's also in German and Spanish.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Further more every other game in existance has set turn arround, or look back to X for this exact reason.

Really_ I remember the first two Resident Evil games didn't even have a quick turnaround key combination, but Resident Evil 3 did. And that button was... wait for it... Backwards + Action. So there goes that theory!

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

If ur fighting me up close or far away if u use 180 degree turn around ur going down lol

If you toe-to-toe me, you're the one going down. Ask people who've played me; I've got a well-earned rep here.

That said, I'd probably try it anyway, just to prove you wrong.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Reverse boost also has the added bonus of making close combat more interesting because both player now have a full range of movement and can have extremely intense battle's bast on reflexes, hand eye acuity and skill.

No it doesn't. It just means combat becomes 75% running away, 25% shooting. It means A-Class mechs will always be able to play keep-away from B-Class and C-Class mechs. This makes A-Class more proportionally powerful than they should be.

Or to put it another way, it'd slow the combat down.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

By your deffinition if u are directly engaging an enemy at ur 12 and a new enemy jumps down from a building at your 9 you should not be allowed to move backwards to avoid getting hit by a rocket on ur left but should instead just die or be forced to turn around and die with no kill.

Wrong. What I would actually do is I'd boost forward to avoid the rocket, then side-dash to the right to place them approxiamtely at 10 and 7, and move away from the walls. This way, I have less chance of being splashed. Of course, if it's a C-Class Rocketeer, I may well retreat a bit more, if to get some cover between me and him, so that I can needle him without him having a clear line of sight on me.

But you, however, would toe-to-toe him! This is why I will kill the Rocketeer, and you will be a pile of scrap metal.

OrbitaLinx, on November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Further I have indeed gotten used to it, it is still impossable to completely avoid and I still dont like it at all. I simply want it off my W A D S. Wheather there is a reverse boost or not is far less of an issue it makes sence but its not enough to ruin combat. I dont care if it is still in the game I just want it of my W A D S.

And I want it on mine.

I could see making it an optional thing perhaps, but to me, Back + Boost is engrained as a 180.

You could probably actually edit your INI to remove it, although I'd strongly advise against it, for very obvious reasons.

[Cest7]

Best suggestion I can come up with is allow us to rebind the boost keys separate from movement.

Edited by Cest7, November 10 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[Damage]

I think the greatest reason for not allowing a backwards boost is.... the jets are on your back. The way the models are designed, if this were real, there would be no way to boost backwards. It adds realism. Forward and sideways mechanically make sense, backwards doesn't.

[OrbitaLinx]

Damage, on November 10 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I think the greatest reason for not allowing a backwards boost is.... the jets are on your back. The way the models are designed, if this were real, there would be no way to boost backwards. It adds realism. Forward and sideways mechanically make sense, backwards doesn't.

Thats fine, it would be logical to simply add exaust ports to the textures on the front and sides of mechs and make reverse boost slower. That being said by your logic the mechs shouldnt be able to to boost sideways either. But I dont reallly have issies with any of this, games are notorius for making mechs boost in directions that have no boosters or thrusters lol. Like I said I just want the turn around off my W A D S. I must state that I do like reverse boost though its bassically logical and realistic that on any vehicle that has multidirectional maneuvering that it would be able to maneuver in reverse as well... But if its decided that reverse boost wont be in the game I would not make a big issue of it I only suggest that it is. Keep in mind that most any one getting shot at and taking extreme damage or simply any one trying to keep an enemy at range might move backwards accept of course in an aircraft that uses motion/ aerodynamics to keep it self in the air. I have seen an array of vehicles move in reverse in combat from humvees to tanks. All though it would make sence that if one is moving in one direction it would be a little slugish to move in an opposing direction.

All that aside the simplist solution is to make 180 turn around rebindable and worry about weather or not reverse boost will be added or removed at another time. You know one step at a time..

[OrbitaLinx]

DarkPulse, on November 08 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Are you saying you're expecting it to boost you backwards_

If so, it doesn't. You'll get used to it and once you do, you'll see how useful it is.

No I wasnt saying that, I dont reallly care to much if it boost backwards all though it would make sence see above but I just want it off my W A D S. I in no way find it useful in close combat which I mosty engage in close combat where it only has been fatal. Its not about getting use to it its about it being impossable to avoid and loosing kills over while aquiering a death.

Edited by OrbitaLinx, November 11 2012 - 01:57 AM.

[OrbitaLinx]

Ratchet18O_o, on November 08 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

DarkPulse, on November 08 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Are you saying you're expecting it to boost you backwards_

If so, it doesn't. You'll get used to it and once you do, you'll see how useful it is.

lol Yea when I played the last beta I noticed this, and it took me a bit to get used to.

So yea, it isn't a bug, and if I'm right the binding can be changed anyways. It really isn't a huge issue, it just take a little getting used to.

The only way to unbind it is to completely dissable all boost. Even having gotten used to it, it is not useful in close combat and is impossable to completely avoid all the time.

[OrbitaLinx]

vince, on November 08 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

I disagree. It's really easy for me to start boosting after a 180 degree turnaround. Having a boost backwards would allow serious fighting advantage as you could retreat while laying suppressing fire. Not a good idea in my opinion.

It is actually a good idea to include any feature that would add new tactics to a game and increas the realism and make battle more interactive and realistic.

[OrbitaLinx]

MrSpaceCat, on November 08 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

confusion, on November 08 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

It would still be nice to have a way to boost backwards though. 180 + start running/boosting takes a lot longer than just a quick jump backwards.

Agreed. As a light mech, sometimes I just need to retreat. The whole "180 turn+run and boost away like the cowardly chicken you are" method just feels clunky...er, clunkier than a giant robot that can dodge should feel.

Adding a boost backwards would be a nice addition to dodging and mobility options.

I agree, but I would be really happy to simply get 180 turn around off my W A D S.

[OrbitaLinx]

THEDRIVEN, on November 09 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Yeah, I was wondering about this as well.  I personally would prefer when pressing double tap back for my mech to go in reverse, and not turn my forward facing mech 180 degrees in another direction.

If this was dont you would be turning around all the time when in clost combate unless u dont bove backwards at all when engaging the enemy. I am constantly moving in all directions when engagin especially in close combat in orget to doge attacks while keeping my enemy well "targeted and at range" I recomend rebind it to X like in every other game lol.

Edited by OrbitaLinx, November 11 2012 - 02:05 AM.

[OrbitaLinx]

KaosMike, on November 09 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

agreed with first post, 180 degree turn should be switched to something else, perhaps double tapping shift to do the flip, so its still the same keys, u just have to do it fast enough, if u want it

If it were shift you would accidentally turn around alot especially in close combat when one is moving around alot. I racomend X it is right bellow S and the standard key for this command in all games. But it would be nice to be able to chose the binding making it work for everyone.

[OrbitaLinx]

DarkPulse, on November 09 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

But then it wouldn't make sense. Plus, if it were on another key, it'd fuzzy bunny up all of us who, by now, are used to using it.

Furthermore, it still doesn't do anything for the issue that a backwards boost (at least without some kind of penalty for enabling it, like more fuel or slower overall boost speed) would be easily abused.

This isn't Armored Core, guys.

In every mech game there is a reverse boost, but i dont really care about that my issue is that I simply want 180 turn around off W A D S. Or at least be able to choose the binding. It is currently set that in order to dissable it you are forced to dissable all bost on the mech completely...

Edited by OrbitaLinx, November 11 2012 - 06:27 PM.