16 replies to this topic

[RavenSol]

atm  this sideways dash dancing  thing is just plain  broken and it affects the game in a very bad way.  Don't get rid of it just fix it.  I do have a couple ideas on how that may be done.  First   make it a sideways jump  (you are adding full power to the leg servo's  causing a instant  jump)  it would be alittle slower  and have a small arc to it also if used it should give a small reduction to movement speed for 1-2 seconds.   Second idea  use the jets exhuast as the purpulsion system  to send you flying sideways (you hit the button you take off gaining speed then stop after alittle bit.) But there should be a small cooldown to it. Call it a rocket reset time.  Both of these examples are of a defensive ability. As it is ingame right now it is used as a offensive ability and is completely over powered.

[DM30]

It's a tricky subject. If you're playing as a light mech, you need a good side dash to stay alive in some of the bigger firefights. However, I do agree that with how quickly you can do it, it can be over-used. It gets pretty frustrating when an Infiltrator starts dancing around you so fast that you never even see them (without them even being cloaked).

Maybe just a *slightly* longer cooldown between dashes would make it a little better, but again, it seems like it would be one of the trickier balancing issues.

[Rooslin]

it is used defensively in game to dodge and make themselves harder to hit i cant see how a sideways dash can be used offensively

i will admit the cooldown needs more time added or take the optimization away that reduces the cooldown

Edited by Rooslin, November 09 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[Immie]

Using dashes to disorient/reactively dodge/strike and disappear behind cover is easily one of my favorite parts of this whole game. They affect the game quite positively; I don't think they need any drastic changes at all.

[Elix]

I respectfully disagree. Hawken is a fast-paced arena FPS and the entire point is to be nimble and agile and think strategically about the situation. The game gives you a radar, a targeting computer on your HUD, and your selection of offensive/defensive/utility items. This game forces you to be ready for what your opponent can do.

I can tell that you feel strongly about this subject because you've now created three threads across three different subforums to talk mostly about it. I would like to ask you to give Hawken a chance. Practice on the learning curve, some. You have to learn a new way of playing to play Hawken, because it does not have the same dynamics as a conventional FPS.

[RavenSol]

dash is being used offensively when the mech using it is using it to attack with.    As for balancing  if they would give these mechs a believable amount of health  having a 2 second cd after fulling specing into it would be fine  (starting with 5second cd)  your using it in a lighter armored mech  you shouldn't be in the open anyway.  Peak out take a shot  ooo snap  he seen me  dash back into cover reposistion  rinse n repeat.  Right now it's run up to mech  and dash around him effectively being imune to being targeted.

[DarkPulse]

Sidedashing has a delay, but there are internals and perks you can use to reduce the cooldown.

That, of course, means you're not taking internals or perks in other things. It's balanced; they've just banked on ultra mobility, leaving them closed to other things.

That said, 2 second delay after speccing in_ Then it'd be like 4-5 seconds without it, which means classes like Brawlers, Assaults, Sharpshooters, would tear you the hell up - not to mention Infiltrators who try to force your moves with grenades.

Simply put, it's about balanced where it is for a reason.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 09 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[Elix]

RavenSol, on November 09 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

dash is being used offensively when the mech using it is using it to attack with.

And_ Welcome to Hawken. You need to work out a tactical counter to that.

You might also be playing against veteran testers who've been in the game since the early stages of the Alpha, and that will introduce a very large skill gap. I still have bruises from Immie blowing me off the side of the planet during CBT1. Use matchmaking to have the game (hopefully) fit you with players that are closer in exp range (and mech capability, and probably skill) to you, if there are enough online at the time.

[Rooslin]

RavenSol, on November 09 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

dash is being used offensively when the mech using it is using it to attack with. As for balancing  if they would give these mechs a believable amount of health  having a 2 second cd after fulling specing into it would be fine  (starting with 5second cd)  your using it in a lighter armored mech  you shouldn't be in the open anyway.  Peak out take a shot  ooo snap  he seen me  dash back into cover reposistion  rinse n repeat.  Right now it's run up to mech  and dash around him effectively being imune to being targeted.

so dash is being used offensively when the players are using it to avoid fire/line of sight with enemy sounds pretty defensive to me

[haze4peace]

Being able to use the dash effectively is what separates the skilled from the not so skilled. It isn't overpowered because you can use it too! Keep at it and remember there are people who have already dumped 50+ hours into the game. It makes a huge difference.

[Analysis]

RavenSol, on November 09 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

dash is being used offensively when the mech using it is using it to attack with.    As for balancing  if they would give these mechs a believable amount of health  having a 2 second cd after fulling specing into it would be fine  (starting with 5second cd)  your using it in a lighter armored mech  you shouldn't be in the open anyway.  Peak out take a shot  ooo snap  he seen me  dash back into cover reposistion  rinse n repeat.  Right now it's run up to mech  and dash around him effectively being imune to being targeted.

If the dash gets the massive cooldown you are suggesting then the normal run walk speed must be dramatically increased. Currently the strafe is Hawken requires thruster fuel. Once fuel is gone you have essentially no dodging mechanic.

[Toryne]

Really wish people would actually learn the game fully and play the entire weekend before jumping to conclusions like this so quickly. Also try and take in account the differences in skill, mech size and play style please. Dash is far from OP. It has a cool down mechanic and can be reduced in the talent tree as well as amount of distance traveled when dashing. It uses Thruster fuel. Out of Fuel = no dash. Please please PLEASE actually learn the mechanics of the game.

Edited by Toryne, November 09 2012 - 04:54 PM.

[zenji]

dash is fine where it is.

[Keekenox]

I actually thought that the dash was under powered, And I thought that the vertical jump needed to be improved, pardon me saying this but the vertical jump jets really feel "Robotic" to me. I don't feel the momentum involved, i go up, up, up, stop...

[Elix]

You can only hover so far over the ground -- your jets need to push against something in order to propel you upwards. Too high and they're only pushing against air, which is insufficient. That's why there are multiple levels built into the maps so you can boost upwards to high vantage points in stages.

That being said, there have been so many times when I've been staring at a ledge, trying to climb up onto it, and I just can't boost that extra little bit to get on it. And that's a little annoying, because it looks so perfect. Meanwhile, my tail is being blown off by the guy with the TOW who thinks he's being cute.

[DM30]

Elix, on November 10 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

That being said, there have been so many times when I've been staring at a ledge, trying to climb up onto it, and I just can't boost that extra little bit to get on it. And that's a little annoying, because it looks so perfect. Meanwhile, my tail is being blown off by the guy with the TOW who thinks he's being cute.

I agree, the jump may need a little bit more fine tuning. At the moment there are a lot of platforms in the maps that look like they should be perfectly reachable, but the mech JUST can't quite reach it. My opinion is that the devs meant for those platforms to be reachable, but didn't give the mechs quite enough oomph to actually get there. Hopefully this will be adjusted, either by making the platforms more clearly out of bounds for single jumps, or give the mechs a little bit more max height.

[EmFire]

DM30, on November 10 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

Elix, on November 10 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

That being said, there have been so many times when I've been staring at a ledge, trying to climb up onto it, and I just can't boost that extra little bit to get on it. And that's a little annoying, because it looks so perfect. Meanwhile, my tail is being blown off by the guy with the TOW who thinks he's being cute.

I agree, the jump may need a little bit more fine tuning. At the moment there are a lot of platforms in the maps that look like they should be perfectly reachable, but the mech JUST can't quite reach it. My opinion is that the devs meant for those platforms to be reachable, but didn't give the mechs quite enough oomph to actually get there. Hopefully this will be adjusted, either by making the platforms more clearly out of bounds for single jumps, or give the mechs a little bit more max height.

Totally agree.

As far as fixing the dash, I noticed when dashing forward with double-tap and using up all of the fuel (still holding forward) the dash does not deactivate. Having the key pressed down after all fuel runs out still treats it like it is activated making the mech lurch forward repeatedly as soon as a "boostable amount" of fuel is recharged. Perhaps this can be fixed, so that you have to activate dash again (double tap) after the fuel runs out. This way you could dash, and as the fuel runs out, your mech transitions into normal walking (because you are still holding the button down) while the fuel recharges until you double-tap again.