16 replies to this topic

[Spawny]

One thing I've been wondering:

What are the specific niches of each mech type_ In other words, what can an A-class do, a B-class can't (or C-class for that matter)_

This is my classification:
A-class: High speed, medium damage, low armour.

B-class: Alrounder: medium speed, medium/high damage, medium armour.

C-Class: Low speed, medium/high damage, high armour.

I do feel however, that a B-class is only marginally slower than an A-class, making an A-class a bit redundant.

As for battelfield roles, I'm not sure why you would pick an A-class over a B-class.
C-classes have a more specific role (tank/hold positions/etc.), but B-classes can do that too.

So, why would I pick anything but a B-class_

[z121231211]

Personal preference_ The jump in health is fairly extreme from B to C (625 to 850 base). Also specific guns can be accessed by different mechs.

[Nitris]

Weapons do not lose or gain any stats based on what mech class they are used on, what that means is that damage isn't a defining difference between the specific weights. Between the variations yes, but not simply the weights.

The differences are:

• Base max HP
  
• Base max EU
  
• Base max Fuel
  
• Base movement speeds (walk, run, boost, acceleration)
  
• (Possibly dash speeds also, but I'm not sure.)

The reasons you'd pick between them are down to your playstyle.

[defekt]

I would agree that either the B-classes are a tad too fast, or have a tad too much base armour.  I'm leaning more toward the former.

[DarkPulse]

z121231211, on November 12 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

Personal preference_ The jump in health is fairly extreme from B to C (625 to 850 base). Also specific guns can be accessed by different mechs.

B-Class begins with 675, actually. The jump is +175 armor per chassis class (500/675/850).

Nitris, on November 12 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Weapons do not lose or gain any stats based on what mech class they are used on, what that means is that damage isn't a defining difference between the specific weights. Between the variations yes, but not simply the weights.

The differences are:

• Base max HP
  
• Base max EU
  
• Base max Fuel
  
• Base movement speeds (walk, run, boost, acceleration)
  
• (Possibly dash speeds also, but I'm not sure.)

The reasons you'd pick between them are down to your playstyle.

• HP: Correct (500/675/850).
  
• Max EU: Correct (150/225/300).
  
• Max Fuel: Mixed. All have 9 units of fuel, where they differ is fuel regen/sec, which is 0.9/0.85/0.8, as well as other things like fuel used to hover (1.6/1.675/1.75) and fuel used when forward boosting (1.8/1.6/1.4).
  
• Movement speeds: Correct, and there's two sets of them. (Walking: 600/525/450, Running: 850/750/650)
  
• Forward boost speeds: Correct (1800/1600/1500).

Edited by DarkPulse, November 12 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[Spawny]

Nitris, on November 12 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Weapons do not lose or gain any stats based on what mech class they are used on, what that means is that damage isn't a defining difference between the specific weights. Between the variations yes, but not simply the weights.

The differences are:

• Base max HP
  
• Base max EU
  
• Base max Fuel
  
• Base movement speeds (walk, run, boost, acceleration)
  
• (Possibly dash speeds also, but I'm not sure.)

The reasons you'd pick between them are down to your playstyle.

Yeah, weapons aren't defining. Should be imo.

The other differences set the types apart, but feel too minute to justify picking an A class over a B class.

Personally, I would make the differences more extreme.

C class even slower and harder to kill, A class faster and a little less damage. Keep B as it is.

[Nitris]

Ah but you see the C class "on paper" is by far the toughest, and resiliant, especially with their turret mode giving them 60/65% damage resist... but the thing with Hawken is that Mobility = Life.

Most if not all weight variations are capable of dealing high damage be that all in one go, or over a fairly short amount of time. Sitting there and taking it in turret mode is just not a good idea, because ok so you don't die from the first volley, or even the second, but your enemy has been dashing left and right and you're very unlikely to have hit them much at all, yet you are sitting on 1/3 HP.

You also have to remember that only C classes can go into turret mode, and the only class -- So far -- That can go invisible is an A class.

[defekt]

Nitris, on November 12 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Ah but you see the C class "on paper" is by far the toughest, and resiliant, especially with their turret mode giving them 60/65% damage resist... but the thing with Hawken is that Mobility = Life.

If I've said it once I've said it a dozen times: no experienced player is going to sacrifice all effective mobility for even absurdly large amounts of damage reduction.  It doesn't matter how hard you are, the only way to make progress in this game, both in terms of mission objectives and progression points, is to take the fight to your enemy/objective.  I've started playing a Brawler and those massive lumps of metal suspended above my head are the equivalent of evolutionary vestigial limbs; they - never - get - used.  The Brawler is great fun to play but it is a mech with no special ability in its current form.  (Almost no-one plays Rocketeer - honestly, why would you.)  The armour baffles need to be re-thought, from the ground up.  There have been several good suggestions kicked around but a personal favourite is some form of holdout riot shield (damage reduction at the cost of dash speed/fuel consumption and perhaps a slightly restricted cockpit view).

[Frenotx]

Don't hate on the rocketeer! It's great for all those people who love the EOC!

On topic: Another thing to consider is the actual size of the chassis. Bigger frame = easier to hit.

DarkPulse, on November 12 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

z121231211, on November 12 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

Personal preference_ The jump in health is fairly extreme from B to C (625 to 850 base). Also specific guns can be accessed by different mechs.

B-Class begins with 675, actually. The jump is +175 armor per chassis class (500/675/850).

Nitris, on November 12 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Weapons do not lose or gain any stats based on what mech class they are used on, what that means is that damage isn't a defining difference between the specific weights. Between the variations yes, but not simply the weights.

The differences are:

• Base max HP
  
• Base max EU
  
• Base max Fuel
  
• Base movement speeds (walk, run, boost, acceleration)
  
• (Possibly dash speeds also, but I'm not sure.)

The reasons you'd pick between them are down to your playstyle.

• HP: Correct (500/675/850).
  
• Max EU: Correct (150/225/300).
  
• Max Fuel: Mixed. All have 9 units of fuel, where they differ is fuel regen/sec, which is 0.9/0.85/0.8, as well as other things like fuel used to hover (1.6/1.675/1.75) and fuel used when forward boosting (1.8/1.6/1.4).
  
• Movement speeds: Correct, and there's two sets of them. (Walking: 600/525/450, Running: 850/750/650)
  
• Forward boost speeds: Correct (1800/1600/1500).

Are fuel values per second_

Edited by Frenotx, November 12 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[DarkPulse]

Frenotx, on November 12 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Are fuel values per second_

Yes, that's fuel units used per second. You may be confused over how the slower the class, the less fuel used for boosting - but keep in mind, they're also moving slower.

[Nitris]

Mm, I thought it was odd as well.
Logically the heavy mechs should require more thrust for them to move than ligher mechs, seeing as how that extra weight is gonna be harder to push around. More thrust requires more fuel. Though I guess the flip side of this is that it could be to imitate having larger fuel reserves because the mech is larger and can hold more_ I don't see why there isn't just a larger fuel cap on heavy mechs if this is the case.

[BlackCephie]

Nitris: I agree that the larger the mech, the larger the fuel tank should be. Might be a good checks and balances.

[TheChaffeemancer]

Nitris, on November 12 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Mm, I thought it was odd as well.
Logically the heavy mechs should require more thrust for them to move than ligher mechs, seeing as how that extra weight is gonna be harder to push around. More thrust requires more fuel. Though I guess the flip side of this is that it could be to imitate having larger fuel reserves because the mech is larger and can hold more_ I don't see why there isn't just a larger fuel cap on heavy mechs if this is the case.

Because then fuel optimizations would be almost completely useless, at least in their current state.

[defekt]

Frenotx, on November 12 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Don't hate on the rocketeer! It's great for all those people who love the EOC!

Alrighty then, fair comment.  I do believe that Rocketeers are the weakest choice in the game as it stands.  Unless something else explains why they are as rare as a discreet f@rt at a funeral.

Edit: Damn filter ruining my quips!

Edited by defekt, November 13 2012 - 04:25 AM.

[Spawny]

DarkPulse, on November 12 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

• HP: Correct (500/675/850).
  
• Max EU: Correct (150/225/300).
  
• Max Fuel: Mixed. All have 9 units of fuel, where they differ is fuel regen/sec, which is 0.9/0.85/0.8, as well as other things like fuel used to hover (1.6/1.675/1.75) and fuel used when forward boosting (1.8/1.6/1.4).
  
• Movement speeds: Correct, and there's two sets of them. (Walking: 600/525/450, Running: 850/750/650)
  
• Forward boost speeds: Correct (1800/1600/1500).

What units are those movement speeds in_ When I optimize my mech, I see movement speeds in m/s, but this doesn't seem to make much sense. Unless it's Walking: 6,00/5,25/4,50, Running: 8,50/7,50/6,50.

[z121231211]

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

Frenotx, on November 12 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Don't hate on the rocketeer! It's great for all those people who love the EOC!

Alrighty then, fair comment.  I do believe that Rocketeers are the weakest choice in the game as it stands.  Unless something else explains why they are as rare as a discreet f@rt at a funeral.

Edit: Damn filter ruining my quips!

I use Rocketeer ;_;

They seem to be purely a support class. All I get are assists. Though they seem effective for placing on top of the AA.

I've heard 1 story of a guy being absolutely amazing with the rocketeer, so it's possible to rock with them, but the time it takes to get that good compared to other classes may not be worth it.

[DarkPulse]

Spawny, on November 13 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

What units are those movement speeds in_ When I optimize my mech, I see movement speeds in m/s, but this doesn't seem to make much sense. Unless it's Walking: 6,00/5,25/4,50, Running: 8,50/7,50/6,50.

Unreal Units (UU). 16 Unreal Units roughly correspond to 1 foot, or 52.5 UU to 1 meter. However, this isn't an exact scale, and in truth, it's arbitrary (i.e; something that players of Unreal Engine games calculated by comparing scales of collision cylinders and assuming heights for characters.) They could just as easily make 52.5 UU equal 10 meters, if everything else is scaled appropriately.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 13 2012 - 09:18 AM.