29 replies to this topic

[NotAnExit]

The problem being:  Protracted sniper battles suck all the joy out of a game.

The solution appears to be to give sharpshooters exactly what the want:  Proof their excellence is based on skill and not class.

How to implement:

Remove:  Sniper "F" key damage bonus / special function button "scope" reticle.

Add:  "Sniper Mode" via "F" key, much like "bunkering" for Class C mechs.  Transitioning takes 1.5 seconds and the scope is always active in this mode / target lock: equivalent to hellfire missle lock.  Previous "F" key damage bonus applies to all Sabot rounds fired via target lock.

[defekt]

I played the Alpha.  Sadly that's all I'm allowed to say but those who were there will understand.  

[Subdivision]

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I played the Alpha.  Sadly that's all I'm allowed to say but those who were there will understand.  

Yes, I love the way all alpha players don't have this issue


Also, to the OP, you can't give sabot target lock. You said make it so it rewards player's skill and not mech class. That's the total opposite.

[Frenotx]

Replacing the damage boost skill with some sort of toggle deploy skill would be pretty nifty. I would be thoroughly displeased if the normal middle-click zoom was removed. Without that, the sabot is almost unusable.

[Spawny]

Subdivision, on November 13 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I played the Alpha.  Sadly that's all I'm allowed to say but those who were there will understand.  

Yes, I love the way all alpha players don't have this issue


Also, to the OP, you can't give sabot target lock. You said make it so it rewards player's skill and not mech class. That's the total opposite.

I think he means locking onto a target, but still having to manually aim. The "locking onto a target" part gives the increase in damage from the sabot rounds, as they now get from the f bonus.

[Subdivision]

Ah that makes more sense. I'd be game for that

[Akrium]

As it stands I believe that having a "cast time" on an ability is junk. It is one of the things they can fix about the c-class issues with theirs. And snipers bunkering down is what that class does and does well. To break a bunkered down team isn't easy, specially with turret farms up. But that is a good D. So it will take a good O to break it. If your team attacks from all angles at the same time it tends to cause a lot of failed bunkerings. One of the attack groups may get knocked out, but the sharpshooters will lose the positioning. There are some key places in all the maps that are good to own as a team, quite often the high ground. sharpshooters obviously LOVE those positions because it is best suited for them.

Is it fun facing 6 sharpshooters_ ugh...  no... but that doesn't mean it ruins the game. Just means you have to play differently and as a team.

[DarkPulse]

The damage ability to the sniper boosts their damage by 10%, which isn't a whole lot. IIRC (too lazy to look up the files), Slug does 80 damage and Sabot does 185. A 10% boost on those makes it 88 and 197.5... not exactly overwhelmingly dominant.

Plus, the scope or standing extremely still is necessary to use the Sabot at all. If you're moving but not zoomed in, you'll miss even if the target is so close you can touch it.

And like defekt, I also played the Alpha, and its NDA still being in effect means I can't go into any further details.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 13 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[NotAnExit]

Most of us in the beta played the Alpha.  It was still broken.

Now, forcing a standstill might work too (then again you'd probably go inactive and get kicked).

[DarkPulse]

Man, I'm tired of all the people who are going "If it kills me, it's broken!" without even giving a realistic counter-argument.

What's next, giving the snipers a BB Gun_ Do we really have to make them annoying to play by making them crawl like a rustbucket and have armor made from nerf before people finally go "Okay, yes, they're skilled_"

Sharpshooters are already the lowest DPS class in the game. Their primary weapons do 12 or 80 damage; the Sabot does 185 with a five second reload delay. They're opportunists, who rely on being able to see the enemy when the enemy can't see them. Doesn't matter if they're A-Class, B-Class, or C-Class.

The sharpshooters aren't the problem. The fact that you don't know how to counter their play is the problem.

In CBE1 I was part of a TDM match on Andromeda that had a really good sniper on the enemy side, who basically took the bridge and would gather his team there. Anyone who tried to go up, even me, got killed fairly quickly as a result.

We won that match.

How_ We bunkered down in one corner of the map - the one corner where there was lots of cover. And we basically forced them to come at us, and when they did, we'd kill them. I got my own Sharpshooter out and counter-sniped him, keeping him from picking off our guys who were fighting.

It can be done, guys. It's not OP if you know how to counter it. The problem is there's quite a few who apparently don't - and until you do, they're always going to seem OP.

If you know what the advantages of your enemy's weapon is, you know how to counter it. Start doing it!

[Novacaptain]

you know grenade launchers can shoot in an arc right_ just sayin.

[c0mad0r]

As an avid fatty C-Class Brawler, I get hit by sniper rounds and die by sniper rounds more than most do... mostly because I'm chunky. However, snipers are NOT an issue in this game. Compared to others out there, this is nothing.

People need to use the tools they have better instead of assuming that there are no counters to something. The shield is an underutilized asset against Slug and SA Hawkins shots from afar. When used correctly, it is an official sniper condom... except you can still blow your wad out, they just cannot get in.

[CaliberMengsk]

As a class A, I rarely die to snipers. Most the time, if there is one in a nest, I just have fun flanking and utterly destroying them. There is also a large amount of people that don't dodge when going against snipers for whatever reason, and that's an obviously large mistake.

In many cases it's just not seeing a way to get around the tactic. In this case, you are complaining about the bonus damage, which is hardly anything. To be honest, it should probably be increased as it doesn't scare me at all. Very few snipers are good enough to hit me consistently, so to the point, it's more the pilots then it is the stats.

Edited by CaliberMengsk, November 13 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Zeshi]

Sharpshooters are fine as is. The only thing i would possibly consider is maybe having their screen shake more when they are scoped when hit with a secondary weapon. Anything more than that and they would be UP.

But still, i hope they stay exactly where they are.

Edited by Zeshi, November 13 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[Beefsweat]

I don't think sharpshooters should get a damage bonus ability. Everything else is pretty ok with me though.

[DarkPulse]

Beefsweat, on November 13 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

I don't think sharpshooters should get a damage bonus ability. Everything else is pretty ok with me though.

10% for 10 seconds is nothing, considering that, without ways to reduce the cooldown, the Sabot takes five to cooldown and even with the boost it'll do just under 200 damage.

[marshalade]

Competent sharpshooting requires elegance and practice. In my opinion, SS is the most balanced class in the game. The ability works very well with the weapons. I'm sorry you feel that you're cheated when my rounds do more damage than you expected and you burn because you attempted to fire one last TOW.

Sharpshooters have a massive, glaring weakness: they're completely worthless in CQC. Learn and exploit that fact. Stop trying to change them.

[Zeshi]

marshalade, on November 13 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Competent sharpshooting requires elegance and practice. In my opinion, SS is the most balanced class in the game. The ability works very well with the weapons. I'm sorry you feel that you're cheated when my rounds do more damage than you expected and you burn because you attempted to fire one last TOW.

Sharpshooters have a massive, glaring weakness: they're completely worthless in CQC. Learn and exploit that fact. Stop trying to change them.

I wouldn't say completely worthless (because sabot rounds dont damage the user if used in CQC like the other secondaries), but i agree they are worthless enough

[HugeGuts]

I think sharpshooters need a buff. No other class punishes you so hard for missing a shot. No other class requires a temporary reduce in situational awareness and mobility to maximize damage potential, which isn't that high to begin with.

When it comes to long range support, the rocketeer is much more effective with much less effort. It also has the benefit of being useful in close combat if one knows how to aim a charged HEAT round.

I think sharpshooters should change from long range support to all around support. Make them evenly useful at any range. Do this by making the sabot able to accurately fire without having to scope in. Weapon stats will need changing to accommodate this, but it will give sharpshooters the flexibility they are desperately lacking.

Edited by HugeGuts, November 13 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[Aelieth]

Sharpshooters seem to be fine, I've not had a real issue with them at all. Mine is only level 7... so I can't really speak authoritatively on the subject, only from being shot by them repeatedly.

Going to be up to the devs to decide what to do about class C mechs and their abilities. A sharpshooter loves a class C proclaiming itself a target. Otherwise, use cover and stealthy tactics to come up on the sharpshooters and take them down. Not really that hard, or just throw a couple well aimed tow rockets to force them back to repair and dash up into enemy lines.