34 replies to this topic

[Subdivision]

Frenotx, on November 16 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

The strength of their homing, and the number of missile that even try to home, is not consistent.

Didn't realise. Never played the class so I'm not familiar with how its weapons function 100%. I got the general idea... Interesting though, didn't think anything was left to be random, everything else is so well considered. Making things random or chance just throws balance in my mind. Surprising to say the least.

[Frenotx]

Agreed. That's why I commented that it felt out of place. I'd be perfectly ok with sacrificing some damage for more reliable performance.

[thepeopleselbow]

They look cool, sound cool, do great damage if you catch someone in the open.

That said, I suck with them.  I can't get them to zip around corners well enough for me.  If someone dodges towards my-right to get behind cover, should I then aim 10-20 degrees left to fire the missiles so they have more area to curve around that cover/corner_  Firing them straight at where the enemy WAS does not seem to score much of a hit.

Again: really fun, but I was finding it difficult to be effective with them in cb2.  Far easier to sabot people in the face.

[ArnieF4440]

Deuy, on November 16 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

ArnieF4440, on November 15 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Well that's just confusing XD. DarkPulse has been looking through the game files and this is what he's got:

DarkPulse, on November 10 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Damage Values. Please note that for anything splash, the damage assumes a "perfect" splash - i.e; one where it basically detonated just inches from the center of the explosion without actually hitting them. Actual splash values will therefore likely be somewhat less in practice.

Spoiler

Those are Alpha values, grenade launcher and TOW were both adjusted for beta (lower damage, faster fire rates).

• Assault Rifle: 12 per bullet.
  
• TOW Rocket: 225 per rocket (direct hit). Splash Radius, 950 UU. Shakes the camera if the explosion occurs within 2200 UU.
  
• Submachine Cannon: 10 per bullet.
  
• Grenade Launcher: 245 per grenade (direct hit). Splash Radius, 750 UU, triggers detonation if enemy is within 250 UU, or auto-detonates after 9.75 seconds if no enemy triggers it. Shakes the camera if the explosion occurs within 2200 UU.
  
• HEAT Cannon: Uncharged/Charged: 90/155 per shot. Splash Radius, 450/750 UU. Shakes the camera if the explosion occurs within 1600/2400 UU.
  
• Sabot Rifle: 185 per shot.
  
• SA Hawkins: 19 per bullet.
  
• Slug Rifle: 80 per shot.
  
• Flak Cannon: 13 per trace x 12 traces = max of 156 damage if all traces hit.
  
• Hellfire Missiles: 30 per missile x 8 missiles launched = max of 240 damage if all missiles hit. Splash Radius, 500 UU.
  
• EOC Repeater: 15 per shot if direct hit. 20 per shot if it's explosive. Splash Radius, 700 UU, triggers explosion if enemy is within 350 UU, or auto-detonates after 5 seconds if no enemy triggers it. Shakes the camera if the explosion occurs within 1200 UU.
  
• Point-D Vulcan: 14 per bullet.

Those are Alpha values, the grenade launcher and TOW were both adjusted for beta (lower damage, faster fire rate).

Huh ... didn't realize, wasn't in alpha, but that does make sense ...

[HandSlander]

Okay I have to say now I remember ONE thing that pissed me off about Hellfires. Its when you are sort of in partial cover and you fire and they all seem to clip the edge of the cover and explode in your face. I mean I know that you have to be careful with these things but it felt like they were clipping way too much - i.e. exploding in front of my eyes past the edge of the cover.

anyone else have this_

[Beemann]

HandSlander, on November 17 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

Okay I have to say now I remember ONE thing that pissed me off about Hellfires. Its when you are sort of in partial cover and you fire and they all seem to clip the edge of the cover and explode in your face. I mean I know that you have to be careful with these things but it felt like they were clipping way too much - i.e. exploding in front of my eyes past the edge of the cover.

anyone else have this_

Depending on the area, I've had this happen with pretty much every weapon
'nades that bounce back off of invisible walls
HEAT shots that collide on what otherwise looked like a gap
TOW rockets that clip the edge of a collision box instead of coasting on by as my messenger pigeon of death

[Frenotx]

It's not that they're bouncing off of invisible walls, it's that they're behind a wall. The weapons are attached to the left and right edges of the mech, not the center. If you're really close to a wall, then the weapons might not have LoS, even though your crosshair does.

 WeaponLoS.jpg   28.96K   27 downloads

[AsianJoyKiller]

Unfortunately, it's not always apparent when your weapon has LoS.
I've got pretty good spatial awareness, and even I fire into my cover every now and then.

Though there are some damn invisible walls out there that don't help.
I remember using the EOC from the top of the AA on Sahara, and the damn pucks would stick to thin air at about waist height where the edge of the platform was.

[HandSlander]

Frenotx i see what you're saying and you make a good point but I have literally seen a hellfire missile clip an invisible wall on multiple occasions - so in that regard the hit boxes need tweaking. But if you have the hellfire missile hitbox too small then it will be harder to hit - especially when in melee combat where you aren't locking on. Conversely it will be easier to shoot round corners.

[Frenotx]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 17 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Unfortunately, it's not always apparent when your weapon has LoS.
I've got pretty good spatial awareness, and even I fire into my cover every now and then.

Though there are some damn invisible walls out there that don't help.
I remember using the EOC from the top of the AA on Sahara, and the damn pucks would stick to thin air at about waist height where the edge of the platform was.

This is true- I ran into that a lot as well. The EOC is hilariously good at finding invisible walls. My point stands, though. I am acutely aware that the vast majority of the time my weapons exploded in my face, it was because I was failing to fully expose the proper side of my mech.

[Beemann]

Frenotx, on November 17 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

It's not that they're bouncing off of invisible walls, it's that they're behind a wall. The weapons are attached to the left and right edges of the mech, not the center. If you're really close to a wall, then the weapons might not have LoS, even though your crosshair does.

WeaponLoS.jpg

No when I see that I chalk it up to bad play on my part
I'm talkin' shooting with the exposed gun and still getting splashed in the face
It happens a lot with those metal ball things on Sahara, and along the high rock wall near the AA

[Juodvarnis]

Hellfire you say_



Anyway, i think that the current Hellfire missiles are simply too random. Don't know how to fix it though.

[Beemann]

Juodvarnis, on November 18 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Anyway, i think that the current Hellfire missiles are simply too random. Don't know how to fix it though.

After hearing this complaint half a dozen times, I think I'll try out the hellfires again (and more extensively) come CB3
They really should be completely consistent

[HandSlander]

Oh - one suggestion: Change the name Hellfire. Hellfire is real military hardware and being a big Apache fan I've seen a lot of videos online. The Hellfire isn't fired in salvos it is laser guided by a gunner or somebody painting a target. Also the hellfire gives off a massive explosion (just one) that would be bigger than the ones in game. Just putting on my mil-sim hat and being pedantic here.

[Frenotx]

These hellfire missiles behave more like the longbow variant. They're the ones the modern, longbow-system-equip apache choppers use, in that they're fire-and-forget. Those missiles tend to fly high though, and strike the target from above (instead of flying straight to the target)

Now that I think of it, that could be a fun addition to the missiles. Instead of strictly making the fly high though, just make them follow the direction they're aimed a bit more.

As it stands, the missiles will fly a short distance in the direction they're aimed, the turn to try and fly straight to the target. It would be cool if the missiles instead attempted to draw a smooth arc from the direction you're aiming, to the target. Such a mechanic would give the player a lot more control over their weapon, raise the skill ceiling, and allow for some pretty badass trick shots.