35 replies to this topic

[Ace4225]

I've had a really hard time aiming the sabot rifle for one reason: it doesn't act anything like sniper cannons/rifles from other shooters.

Now I could just be bad with it (I've seen many a skilled player pro the sharpshooter, so it's obviously possible) but I've put some thought into this post and I think even skilled sharpshooters may agree on some points.

The sabot rifle fires too slowly; the slug rifle travels faster, and it's not a sniping weapon. In virtually every other shooter, the sniper round travels faster than all other ammo in other guns.

Sometimes I'm just dodging with a sharpshooter and the sabot rifle momentarily aims at the ground just in time for me to fire and totally miss my target, even though my reticule is dead on its torso. Other weapons don't do that; they stay on target regardless of mech orientation.

I understand it's powerful, but it already has a very slow recycle time and a slightly delayed firing action. Shouldn't the round be able to travel faster_ The point of snipers is to be able to snipe accurately over long distances. The cockpit bob alone makes it hard to aim while moving.

This point concerns me because the slow travel speed of the sabot round just doesn't really add up for me.. it seems counteractive to the point of sniping from distance.

Perhaps as a potential new counter for making the round travel faster could be a severe amount of heat generation (it is a sabot round, after all) why not make it so two/three shots cause you to overheat_

Edited by Ace4225, November 14 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Zeshi]

I was under the impression that the sabot was a hit-scan weapon (meaning instant travel time). I'm sure others will reply to this thread to either confirm that or make me look like a fool

[AsianJoyKiller]

Ace4225, on November 14 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

I've had a really hard time aiming the sabot rifle for one reason: it doesn't act anything like sniper cannons/rifles from other shooters.

Now I could just be bad with it (I've seen many a skilled player pro the sharpshooter, so it's obviously possible) but I've put some thought into this post and I think even skilled sharpshooters may agree on some points.

The sabot rifle fires too slowly; the slug rifle travels faster, and it's not a sniping weapon. In virtually every other shooter, the sniper round travels faster than all other ammo in other guns.

Sometimes I'm just dodging with a sharpshooter and the sabot rifle momentarily aims at the ground just in time for me to fire and totally miss my target, even though my reticule is dead on its torso. Other weapons don't do that; they stay on target regardless of mech orientation.

I understand it's powerful, but it already has a very slow recycle time and a slightly delayed firing action. Shouldn't the round be able to travel faster_ The point of snipers is to be able to snipe accurately over long distances. The cockpit bob alone makes it hard to aim while moving.

This point concerns me because the slow travel speed of the sabot round just doesn't really add up for me.. it seems counteractive to the point of sniping from distance.

Perhaps as a potential new counter for making the round travel faster could be a severe amount of heat generation (it is a sabot round, after all) why not make it so two/three shots cause you to overheat_

I'll like how dedicated you are to be completely and utterly wrong.
Sabot is hitscan. It's instant.
Point, click, win.

Also, if you're having accuracy problems, have you ever tried zooming in_

[Ace4225]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 14 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Sabot is hitscan. It's instant.
Point, click, win.

Also, if you're having accuracy problems, have you ever tried zooming in_

I could have been experiencing minor lag, but I definitely always noticed a delay in the time it took for a sabot round to leave the barrel and hit a target. Never had this issue with the slug rifle, which was why I didn't consider it a bug when the sabot rifle just seemed to go right through enemies without hitting them.

just an fyi.. most of the time I used the sharpshooter, I was making use of zoom.

[Culex]

I also believe it is a hit-scan (hits pretty much instantly from across the map, otherwise its flippin' fast).

I have to agree the head-bob while moving can be really aggravating. It's already difficult to hit an experienced pilot in a leveled A mech who is constantly moving, Due to a combination of their speed, the headbob, and the fact that you pretty much have to scope to hit them while moving in close combat, is quite challenging and renders the SS really disadvantaged.

If only there was a way to turn off head-bob...

[Ace4225]

once I compensated for the delay, I was able to pull off some sweet kills with it.. but there's definitely something odd about the firing timing besides the head bob issue.

I'd say it's my computer/FPS, but 95% of the time, the game was running smooth at max settings. I have a GTX 560 and 16 gigs 2133mhz RAM after all..

Edited by Ace4225, November 14 2012 - 11:19 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Ace4225, on November 14 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

once I compensated for the delay, I was able to pull off some sweet kills with it.. but there's definitely something odd about the firing timing besides the head bob issue.

What ping are you playing at_
If you have a significant enough ping, and depending on the quality of Hawken's netcode, there's a chance you may need to compensate for it.
Still, I doubt that's the case, because then other weapons would need compensation even more so.

[Ace4225]

the highest I ever noticed my ping go was about 120.

It's always possible the sabot mechanics on my end could just have been buggy.

[Phaaze]

Ace4225, on November 14 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

the highest I ever noticed my ping go was about 120.

It's always possible the sabot mechanics on my end could just have been buggy.

try putting all graphics on minimum and putting cockpit lag to 0% that may help

[BeefC4ke]

Ace4225, on November 14 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on November 14 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Sabot is hitscan. It's instant.
Point, click, win.

Also, if you're having accuracy problems, have you ever tried zooming in_

I could have been experiencing minor lag, but I definitely always noticed a delay in the time it took for a sabot round to leave the barrel and hit a target. Never had this issue with the slug rifle, which was why I didn't consider it a bug when the sabot rifle just seemed to go right through enemies without hitting them.

just an fyi.. most of the time I used the sharpshooter, I was making use of zoom.

I think I may know what you're talking about and I'm pretty sure it's due to lag/how the game calculates the shots. Since I play SS all the time I've begun to notice some things that I don't like.

Sometimes when you fire the sabot/slug you'll fire on the torso of a moving target just as they're moving behind cover. The game locks on this point and then sends the rounds. Considering the lag time between clicking and firing you should have missed (or clipped the tail end of the mech) but the shot still goes off and follows them till their behind the wall and hits the wall instead since it auto corrects and tries for center of mass. I've noticed this while standing still, not moving my mouse, and shooting at a target going behind cover. It's not my moving the mouse and shooting after the target is behind cover that's making the strange behavior (since I'm not moving anything, just cliking) but rather how the game calculates the shot and the server lag.

Sometimes, if the shot would have just traveled a trajectory, it would have hit the back end or arm of the target but since it's not, the shot follows the spot on the target you clicked or the center of mass and hits the wall.

I've also noticed that if I shoot at a target who's arm is sticking out, I can shoot at the arm and the shots will auto correct (auto aim) closer to center mass and miss.

I really wish I had video of all of this.

Long story short, if your ping is above 80-90 you probably shouldn't play Sharpshooter. My hardest matches are the ones where my ping goes above 90. I find I have to lead targets in order to hit them but this lead changes all the time as your ping fluctuates.

[The_Silencer]

Culex, on November 14 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

I also believe it is a hit-scan (hits pretty much instantly from across the map, otherwise its flippin' fast).

I have to agree the head-bob while moving can be really aggravating. It's already difficult to hit an experienced pilot in a leveled A mech who is constantly moving, Due to a combination of their speed, the headbob, and the fact that you pretty much have to scope to hit them while moving in close combat, is quite challenging and renders the SS really disadvantaged.

If only there was a way to turn off head-bob...

Maybe that would be a good candidate for an upgrade.

@Ace4225: FYI, I've played many games (having from 120 to 230 pings) with my SharpShooter and went pretty well. I wasn't so succesful in close combats but haven't noticed these issues you mention above. As the guys have said already, video of that will be much appreciated next time.

[Ace4225]

Phaaze, on November 15 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

Ace4225, on November 14 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

the highest I ever noticed my ping go was about 120.

It's always possible the sabot mechanics on my end could just have been buggy.

try putting all graphics on minimum and putting cockpit lag to 0% that may help

My settings are already there.

I plan to record more video of my play in CB3 since I only did it once during this beta, and only managed to capture a little bit of basic gameplay.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Ace4225, on November 14 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

the highest I ever noticed my ping go was about 120.

It's always possible the sabot mechanics on my end could just have been buggy.

That's strange.
I ping about 120-130 on West and I've never had problems with the Sabot.
It's just a point and click adventure for me.

[Saer]

I too have never had a problem with the Sabot and quite like how it doesn't feel like a typical FPS sniper rifle, are you expecting to do "360 no-scopes" _ jk

I don't see it being slow to hit its target at all, especially with it being hit-scan type rather than an actual projectile. It gets there pretty much instantaneously.

[DarkPulse]

Sabot is hitscan. If you miss, it's either due to spread (i.e; unzoomed/shooting while moving) or else due to you being a bad shot.

Possibly could be no "prediction" for hits, though, meaning you might have to lead your targets a tad with higher pings.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 15 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[RipperT]

Question: If the zoom function on the sharpshooter is tied to the sabot rifle, should that be the only weapon available in zoom mode_ Or possibly should there be a reduced accuracy penalty for the primary while in zoom_

A bit off the original topic, but curriosity has been known to kill kittens.

[DarkPulse]

There's actually an accuracy penalty for not zooming in.

[HawkenGame.R_Weap_Sniper]
ZoomSpread=0.0075
UnZoomSpread=0.275

Thus, if anything, weapons should get more accurate when you zoom, not less. You're sacrificing situational awareness when you zoom, after all.

[Ace4225]

hmm. :/ well, at least one other person had some issues besides me it looks like. I'm sure there's some sort of explanation... but it does appear I was wrong about the sabot rifle needing accuracy improvement.

It now appears I may have a bug to report... if it still happens in CB3, I'll get some video of it.

Edited by Ace4225, November 15 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[DarkPulse]

The Sabot Rifle is inaccurate as heck if you're unzoomed and moving. It's almost impossible to land a shot even point blank if you are.

When you're zoomed in, it's much more accurate. You also apparently improve accuracy if you're perfectly still but unzoomed (i.e; dead stop).

If you're missing shots with that regardless, try leading your target a titch. They are instant hit, but the hit detection isn't predicted (possibly) and so it depends on your ping.

Me, I just got in the habit of quickscoping.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 15 2012 - 06:09 PM.

[Ace4225]

DarkPulse, on November 15 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

The Sabot Rifle is inaccurate as heck if you're unzoomed and moving. It's almost impossible to land a shot even point blank if you are.

When you're zoomed in, it's much more accurate. You also apparently improve accuracy if you're perfectly still but unzoomed (i.e; dead stop).

I did notice it was easier to aim when standing still, but rounds still often had a noticeable latency effect (I'd guess somewhere in the ballpark of 50-100 ms) before hitting.

Most if not all of the time I totally missed was when I was moving, so that's probably normal then.

^But doesn't this bring up an issue in itself [which I sort of addressed]_

Shouldn't the sabot rifle still be usable while walking/dodging_ Especially since it takes the place of a TOW or other heavy weapon_

Edited by Ace4225, November 15 2012 - 06:20 PM.