35 replies to this topic

[DarkPulse]

50-100ms delay is probably due to your ping then.

It'd have a certain other value if it were an actual projectile (SpeedDefault to be precise) and damage expressed in DamageDefault, but the value for the Sabot clearly lists under InstantHitDamageDefault instead - meaning it's hitscan.

[RipperT]

Personally, I did not have any problems with accuracy in zoom mode related to the sabot. I suppose this is because I always tried to find a sniping spot that provided some cover and was mostly stationary when using it. It felt like the sabot's sweet spot was in the 250 to 300 meter range. What I did feel was that the primary short range weapon may have been too accurate and visited too much damage in zoom verse close combat.

The question asked earlier probably could have been phrased better and limited to the isolation of the sabot in zoom. If it were limited to sabot, in my opinion, it might be easier to balance damage at range/targeting issues.

I was unaware of the penalties already imposed unzoomed.

[Ace4225]

DarkPulse, on November 15 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

50-100ms delay is probably due to your ping then.

It'd have a certain other value if it were an actual projectile (SpeedDefault to be precise)

The ping is probably the issue. I did want to bring up that I noticed a projectile graphic leave the sabot barrel.. are you not talking about that here_

[Conquistador]

Sabot is a hitscan weapon that acts like a projectile weapon in certain high-ping situations due to odd lag compensation.

It's like... both. Kinda. Unintentionally so. If you have bad lag (like me), you'll need to lead with the sabot.

[Ace4225]

it's funny, because hardly anything else lags.

[Conquistador]

Ace4225, on November 15 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

it's funny, because hardly anything else lags.

Lag doesn`t really seem to affect projectile motion for weapons with travel time like the TOW. I believe it`s simply a difference in coding behaviour and lag compensation.

Though doesn't the Slug Rifle shots behave like the Sabot`s, too_ I could have sworn I had to lead with the Slug rifle.

All the other hitscan weapons have ridiculous amounts of accuracy falloff outside of close to medium range (i.e. flak canon or assault rifle) and you won't be effectively hitting enemies at a range long enough for the lag to give the weapons "projectile-like" motion.

[DarkPulse]

Conquistador, on November 15 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Though doesn't the Slug Rifle shots behave like the Sabot`s, too_ I could have sworn I had to lead with the Slug rifle.

Slug Rifle is also hitscan, yes. They're essentially identical guns, from an engine POV, except for different things like damage, cooldown, etc.

[NY_TimeBombTimmy]

DarkPulse, on November 15 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

The Sabot Rifle is inaccurate as heck if you're unzoomed and moving. It's almost impossible to land a shot even point blank if you are.

When you're zoomed in, it's much more accurate. You also apparently improve accuracy if you're perfectly still but unzoomed (i.e; dead stop).

I have to say when in CQ combat with the SS, I've had plenty of hits with the Sabot unzoomed. I'm not saying it is accurate, but while that close you CAN get hits. Even moving, cause at that point you'd better be moving. I had to find a way to counter A & C classes walking up on me. A few shots from the Slug and a 'lucky' Sabot can save your butt, or at least make them question themselves.

[marshalade]

NY_TimeBombTimmy, on November 16 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

A few shots from the Slug and a 'lucky' Sabot can save your butt, or at least make them question themselves.

Love hits with the Sabot close range. You can practically see the fear in the pilots eyes when they realize yes, you can approximate where they'll be after they dodge and yes, you can actually hit them.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

What i have noticed is that at times, you will be aiming the sabot somewhere, and the shot then lands somewhere that you were NOT aiming at, and in those moments you can sort of see the rifle move up and down on the mech.
Don't know how else to explain it, but that's what it looks like.
It's REALLY weird.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on November 16 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

What i have noticed is that at times, you will be aiming the sabot somewhere, and the shot then lands somewhere that you were NOT aiming at, and in those moments you can sort of see the rifle move up and down on the mech.
Don't know how else to explain it, but that's what it looks like.
It's REALLY weird.

If you're moving, that's due to "head" bobbing.
If you're no scoped in, that's due to not being scoped in.

[SmaCkexe]

Ace4225, on November 14 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

I've had a really hard time aiming the sabot rifle for one reason: it doesn't act anything like sniper cannons/rifles from other shooters.

Now I could just be bad with it (I've seen many a skilled player pro the sharpshooter, so it's obviously possible) but I've put some thought into this post and I think even skilled sharpshooters may agree on some points.

The sabot rifle fires too slowly; the slug rifle travels faster, and it's not a sniping weapon. In virtually every other shooter, the sniper round travels faster than all other ammo in other guns.

Sometimes I'm just dodging with a sharpshooter and the sabot rifle momentarily aims at the ground just in time for me to fire and totally miss my target, even though my reticule is dead on its torso. Other weapons don't do that; they stay on target regardless of mech orientation.

I understand it's powerful, but it already has a very slow recycle time and a slightly delayed firing action. Shouldn't the round be able to travel faster_ The point of snipers is to be able to snipe accurately over long distances. The cockpit bob alone makes it hard to aim while moving.

This point concerns me because the slow travel speed of the sabot round just doesn't really add up for me.. it seems counteractive to the point of sniping from distance.

Perhaps as a potential new counter for making the round travel faster could be a severe amount of heat generation (it is a sabot round, after all) why not make it so two/three shots cause you to overheat_

I read all of this only to realize that this can be summed up in just a couple of sentences.

You are bad with the Sabot and therefore you want it changed.  I do not say this to be mean but, after reading your post that is how I felt.   The sabot is extraordinarily powerful.  It is a very strong gun and I have seen a handful of accurate people dominate with it.  If you are having issues with the Sabot then I would suggest you not use it because it does not need to be changed.   I might add I have similar issues with the Sabot.  I feel like I cannot hit anyone with it and that it fires too slow.  That said ... if you look at dmg per second ... it is a very strong gun.  I do not use it because I am terrible with it but, I have several team mates who can show you how to use it and that it is quite viable as it is.


Please never use the phrase " in other games".  This is not other games ... This is Hawken.  Other games will be changing to compete with Hawken.

[Ace4225]

If it really is hitscan, then I don't want it changed...

the thing is, from my experience using it, I wasn't able to treat as a hitscan weapon; there was lag to it. But we've already figured out [thanks to some smart people here on the forum :) ] that the issue is with lag on my connection, not with the rifle.


I don't always respond to OPs in long forums, but when I do, I at least glance at some of the other comments.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Ace4225, on November 18 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

I don't always respond to OPs in long forums, but when I do, I at least glance at some of the other comments.

Congratulations on having basic reading comprehension skills and standard ethical debate habits.

[DarkPulse]

Ace4225, on November 18 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

I don't always respond to OPs in long forums, but when I do, I at least glance at some of the other comments.

"Stay kvetchy, my friends."

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 17 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on November 16 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

What i have noticed is that at times, you will be aiming the sabot somewhere, and the shot then lands somewhere that you were NOT aiming at, and in those moments you can sort of see the rifle move up and down on the mech.
Don't know how else to explain it, but that's what it looks like.
It's REALLY weird.

If you're moving, that's due to "head" bobbing.
If you're no scoped in, that's due to not being scoped in.

Well, i always scope in for Sabot shots, unles my target is close enough i could run into him, but in those cases i never miss.
As for head bobbing, that might explain it, assuming 'head' bob also happens when standing still and only moving the mouse to adjust aim (which is usually when it happens).