13 replies to this topic

[MidN16hT]

I think a wise development as far as light, medium, and heavy mechs go would be different roles each could take. Light mechs for instance could go power tree for longer reactor life...or heightened power of their thrusters. Or they could go the survivability tree with enhanced cockpit protection making direct hits glances or indirect hits...another tree could be dps output like different kinds of ammunition...Hollow points could make the enemy slower...or armor piercing rounds on direct hits do crits for instance...just throwing ideas on the table at this point.

[Houruck]

Almost all of these were suggested or even implemented before.

We had a tree with movement, offense and defense options and Ascension introduced a tuning system.

The effects of the tree options and the first internals were negligible (like +0,2% damage) and everyone went with movement and spent the rest on defense. The tuning system was an illusion of choice, you had to go with the optimal build.

 

 

For Fred's sake, please do not make anything that slows down other players.

Edited by Houruck, 17 April 2015 - 03:19 AM.

[CraftyDus]

We had skill trees. We had tuning points. Most players get totally lost in them and miss the few really effective builds. Then the game seems extremely unbalanced and broken to them.

[Pastorius]

Yeh, Crafty is right. The new players got lost in it and all the competitive players just ended up using the exact same optimal builds so it became somewhat of a pointless exercise in the end.

[BaronSaturday]

The thing about talent trees is they need to be lateral. So much so that they don't even need to be used. For instance, trading boost speed for a smaller fuel tank. More dps for higher heat rates. More health for longer dodge times.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

My question is how League of Legends get away with it? Runes that increase something a little bit. Mastery Pages which also do the same thing. For all I can see, LoL is almost identical to Hawken. High grind. Free, weekly mech rotation alike LoL's champion rotation. After playing both games, I can easily see the similarities. I feel that Hawken was based a bit off LoL. 

 

Which furthers my point - why does it work for LoL? Was it because the Tuning System affected the game too much unlike LoL's runes and mastery pages? Or was the points small? As a person who wasn't around in the time of Tuning System, I have no clue how much it affected gameplay/stats of said mech. If it was massive, I can see the complaining with the "optimal build", but if it was a small increase then I don't see the problem in it. It even gives the player the illusion that they are achieving to something rather than "play the game because it's fun". Maybe it'd also give some people a reason to customise multiple of the same mech.

 

But I seriously hate the whole comment about "not having an effective build, you lose". Yes, I wasn't around in the TS time, but I can name so many games that has a whole "optimised build" and are extremely popular. Heathstone, League, possibly even Dota - I keep being lectured on how to play etc when I get to said rank. League is likely the biggest with items, runes and many other things and we all know how popular that is! Even right now in Hawken people are using different builds - such as the orb build, using strategies - sit on an orb while I turret-mode Vanguard.

 

My comment here is that this game has died because of it's lack of customisation. Games that allow for better customisation are generally more popular (want to go back to LoL - runes, champions, items...), Hearthstone - a CARD GAME, has done better than this!

 

Anyways, I digress - it's night in Australia and I'm tired. Maybe my argument is flawed or something, but I still feel that some of the things I said must be considered at the very least. Implement a way for greater customisation for my mechs that would not have people screaming at me saying "best build" or "I like it the way it was before", because to be blunt this game is not very attractive to new players. Again, there is never a clear-cut solution with these things so I don't expect an answer everyone agrees on. Just please, make me able to tweek my mech a tiny bit and give me the illusion that I am actually making a difference when I add a point in armour or something...

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 17 April 2015 - 05:32 AM.

[Sp3ctrr]

My question is how League of Legends get away with it? 

 

Maybe because LoL isn't HAWKEN.

[Tankman95]

My question is how League of Legends get away with it?

I guess mostly because LoL has an imense playerbase. Would hawken have nearly as much players as LoL, we could sort "similar" players with the same progress better to each other. Cuz I don't think someone with full runes and stuff will get matchmaked into a game with new players.

 

So IMO the nonexistence of a skill-/leveltree is due the low playerbase.

[Dedhed]

I enjoyed the skill trees and honestly don't see how the internals are any different other than being more limited. Love customization at any rate and really hope something is figured out there. Personally I would like 3 rows of internals divided as the skill trees were into "Offense", "Defense" and "Movement".

[Volgraza]

Why have Skill trees at all. Internals could provide the same results. I would love a larger Fuel tank Internal (Hint Hint) 

[WastingTime]

I do miss the spec points 

[Interrobang87]

I appreciate more customization also but lol and hawk are two entirely different animals.

League is all about using teamwork to push objectives, upgrading through items and team fights /strategic play through different classes aka tank, support, assassin, carry.

In hawken, for the most part (minus the tech) all the mechs are killers and are balanced as such. Yes, you have a somewhat objective based siege mode but it's not the same at all.

So getting to my point- having skill trees in hawken would be like only having an offense tree in league and every champion is a bruiser or assassin. There would only be "one" optimal path and anyone competent would use it. The rest of the people who didn't use that optimal build would be at a disadvantage.

[BaronSaturday]

I appreciate more customization also but lol and hawk are two entirely different animals.

League is all about using teamwork to push objectives, upgrading through items and team fights /strategic play through different classes aka tank, support, assassin, carry.

In hawken, for the most part (minus the tech) all the mechs are killers and are balanced as such. Yes, you have a somewhat objective based siege mode but it's not the same at all.

So getting to my point- having skill trees in hawken would be like only having an offense tree in league and every champion is a bruiser or assassin. There would only be "one" optimal path and anyone competent would use it. The rest of the people who didn't use that optimal build would be at a disadvantage.

Not if it's lateral to the extent that you could leave the mech stock and still be viable. It would take a ton of work and even more testing, but it could be done.

[Mergaz]

The best method is to work with a single tree, undivided by spec, but by improvements ... The current tree WoW, in theory, was made so that all talents are viable for all specs.

Tier 1 - could be defense increase: the first skill increases HP, the second ability increases the healing received and the third decreases the damage suffered;

Tier 2 - could focus on the weapon: increase the accuracy  of projectiles, decrease the time of their recharging or the heating of arms;

Tier 3 - would be mobility: increasing distance from dodge, increase flight speed or increase the land movement speed;

Tier 4 -  tier focused on the management of internal items: increased storage capacity, decrease in CDs or increase in their effectiveness of item;

Tier 5 - type of ammunition: Explosive - major damage against A Mechs, composed - effective against B Mechs, penetrating - Effective against C Mechs.

Edited by Mergaz, 18 April 2015 - 07:48 AM.