28 replies to this topic

[Nov8tr]

I came on with a alt Old_Man_Nov. I went to bed this morning and my MMR on that acct was 1504. When I logged on this evening. It was 1491. I thought I'd warm up a bit before tonight's fight night and get my MMR back up as well. I thought it was odd that it was less than when I went to sleep. I just played 3 matches. Our team won all 3. I was in top 3 in all 3 games. I got assist leader in 1. I got kill leader in 1. I left before the next match (would have been the 4th) and thought I'd check it before getting ready for Wednesday War tonight. I figured it was now back up over 1500 easy. What do I find? Hmmm it is now 1474. What?? WHAT ??? It went down after winning 3. It went down after being in top 3. It went down after kill leader. It went down after assist leader. OK call me silly but uh isn't that kind of insane? What do I have to do? LOSE to get it up?? This makes no sense at all to me. I really don't get it. I completely believe it should easily have gone up over 1500. I'm working hard at getting it back up to what it use to be. At my age thats a lot harder. Especially with my disablities. But I have gone from 1364 last Wednesday to over 1500 on 2 accts and the other back up to about 1424. Not where I want to be, but a improvement for sure. I don't need Scrimbot having a spaz attack and ruining my score. This is not the 1st time its done this. Or the 10th, or even the 50th time. It is getting on my nerves now. Sigh....OK got to go get ready for WW now.

[VisionCloud]

So, I am no Hawken expert, but I think that:

 

Your MMR rises and falls with how many times you kill someone of higher MMR than yourself and how many times someone with lower MMR kills you. You could potentially get first in every game, never kill anyone, and have a low MMR player kill you repeatedly and still lose MMR. I could be wrong, like I said, I'm no expert and don't really know how MMR works, just thought I had heard that somewhere.

[6ixxer]

I gained 20MMR in a game by playing against people that I know have a significantly higher MMR than me.

I don't lose much from being killed, but gain more from killing.

Auto queue games I gain hardly anything as there are more lower MMR players around and if they kill me I lose more than I gain from killing those above me.

[Hyginos]

So, I am no Hawken expert, but I think that:

 

Your MMR rises and falls with how many times you kill someone of higher MMR than yourself and how many times someone with lower MMR kills you. You could potentially get first in every game, never kill anyone, and have a low MMR player kill you repeatedly and still lose MMR. I could be wrong, like I said, I'm no expert and don't really know how MMR works, just thought I had heard that somewhere.

 

I seem to remember one of the ADH devs saying that MMR going up or down based solely on your score/min vs the server median, then how much is decided by the difference between your MMR and that of the server

[MacTep_6oT]

youre melting. fact.

if your are projected to be on a fact track rise, and don't live up to it, for it Scrimbot adjust. stay out for a week and you will see waht your "real" mmr is. then jump into match with higher mmr playes and watch it jump 50, one night (above your "old" mmr). cheap shot, but works

 

edit: fact fast fat

'c' is 's' in russsian. sorry.

Edited by MacTep_6oT, 29 April 2015 - 07:00 PM.

[FlamingBeaker]

Also, never look up your MMR when the date is April 1st and Ashfire is in a playful mood.

 

Too bad the forum post isn't still around to show how many of us fell for that prank.

 

[Nov8tr]

Of course I'll just keep pounding it. I was killing people above my level. All 3 matches were with skilled people at the end of my MMR range. (at least the server was rated at the end of my MMR) That is what I found odd. Because I was killing people above my level and getting the bonus for being below them. Oh who knows why. Moot point, it is going to do what it does for whatever reason it does it. :D

[Lioot]

I got 0.25 mmr once for winning a 30 minute siege game, score was over 3000....

[Grollourdo]

God man I feel ya u ve had this shameful 1500-1600 for as long as I can remember...

 

Edit : what i meant was: God man i feel ya I ve da this shameful 1500-1600 mmr for as long as i can remember....

Edited by Grollourdo, 30 April 2015 - 04:02 AM.

[Nov8tr]

I got up to 2004 years ago. I've played everyone at every level I could play in any country for a long time. I never went competitive. I played to have fun and it came down. Then a year ago I wasn't playing much and cheating got rampant and I just stopped playing. And I've been here way, way longer than you Grollourdo. I played against you and not to be rude but had no problem killing you. So calling my 1500 to 1600 "shameful" on the other hand is rude and not just to me but to many, many players here. Please don't do that. It was down to 1364 when I came back. In the last week I've raised it over 1000 so not bad. You've known me a couple of weeks. In that time I have made 2 alts. Built them up to almost lvl 30 and 1500 MMR on those too. And worked on my main. The one alt is just pure fun and the other is mainly for Wednesday War. AND you are still a young boy. I am 61 yrs old. Lets see what your eye/hand coordination is at my age. Lets see just how good you are at my age. Or see you even play with my disabilities at all. (for those who don't know, check my profile to understand) Don't make assumptions about people, it is never a good idea. Ask some of the higher end people I do play. I played in Wednesday War tonight like I do every week. I killed Ticklemyiguana, a highly talented, skilled player that I have a great deal of respect for. (Granted he can kill me wayyy more but at least I have to skill to do it sometimes.) Do you honestly think you could? I doubt it. Ask any of the other players I've played with either as Nov8tr, I_Come_In_Peace or Old_Man_Nov if I'm a decent player. Am I satisfied with where my  MMR is now? No, I'm working on bringing it up even more. I have no plans on stopping learning or relearning what I use to know. I will continue to get better because I am willing to put the necessary  work in to do so.

 

And finally to get back to what this post was even about in the first place. It was not about your opinion of my "shameful" MMR. It was about problems with the algorithm that control how MMR is decided by the system. Some of the things it does doesn't make a great deal of sense. That is what this thread is about. But thank you for your opinion. And Lioot, yeah that is the kind of thing I mean. And thanks for the tip MacTep, hadn't heard that before. VisionCloud and Hyginos, yeah there are a lot of opinions about how it works. I've heard quite a few. Even several different ones from people who have been here for a long time. One thing I will say is it is easy to go down in MMR fast but slow for the most part to come back up. Bottom line for me is fun. I am not here for competition play, I am too old for that. And yeah, I have fun. So it's all good.

 

**EDIT** Before anyone goes spaz. It's OK. Grollourdo made a mistake and typed a "U" instead of a "I". Kind of changes the meaning a great deal but it was a honest error. I have no hard feelings and besides Grollourdo and I are friends. Check my friends list on my profile.

Groll forget it man, it's cool. :D

Edited by Nov8tr, 30 April 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[Elite_is_salty]

Well, if you're 1500, and you play in 1300-1400 servers which are the most available ones, then ofc it will keep going down even if you play well. Only way it will go up in such servers is if you play at a STELLAR level.

 

Look for 1800 servers, play there. These are almost always available. Use this app to see the ratings of the servers before you join. I have never seen a mechanism in a video game as unreliable as the star rating system in HAWKEN's server browser.

[Nov8tr]

Headed off to bed now Elite but nope, I play at the high end limit of my MMR range of servers. Yeah I play on  1700 to 1800, hard to do but I learn more even if I do get screwed on MMR points. Yeah I have the server list and check before I go in. That is what I said in my original post at the top. I was playing on HIGH MMR  servers and not low and it was still taking my score DOWN. I was playing against a team of competent players and was killing them. (also said yeah I ws getting the bonus for them being higher than me) And coming in first on one match and 3rd in the other two matches on a server that was way above my MMR. And taking highest kills on a server that was way above my MMR.  And taking highest assist on servers that were way above my MMR level. And our team won all 3 matches. AND IT STILL WENT DOWN. Then to test the system I took 2 auto-matches. Got in with players my level and just jumped around mech to mech, yolo diving and stuff to have fun but insure death. Lost of course and my MMR went UP. Sigh.......that is what I am talking about mate. :D Remember I've been playing here since closed beta. After talking to Josh on TS tonight before we played Wednesday War I know about the server problems. I know the anti-DDoS code is giving them hell causing the ping/latency problems we have been having and some others. Which is a lot of why they have been doing the double XP weekends to test new setups and some problems with the type of hosting and some server config problems too. Hey they'll get it. At least they are trying unlike the last company that just bailed. Josh sounds like a pretty competent guy. He'll figure it out. Take care Elite my friend. :D

[Grollourdo]

I got up to 2004 years ago. I've played everyone at every level I could play in any country for a long time. I never went competitive. I played to have fun and it came down. Then a year ago I wasn't playing much and cheating got rampant and I just stopped playing. And I've been here way, way longer than you Grollourdo. I played against you and not to be rude but had no problem killing you. So calling my 1500 to 1600 "shameful" on the other hand is rude and not just to me but to many, many players here. Please don't do that. It was down to 1364 when I came back. In the last week I've raised it over 1000 so not bad. You've known me a couple of weeks. In that time I have made 2 alts. Built them up to almost lvl 30 and 1500 MMR on those too. And worked on my main. The one alt is just pure fun and the other is mainly for Wednesday War. AND you are still a young boy. I am 61 yrs old. Lets see what your eye/hand coordination is at my age. Lets see just how good you are at my age. Or see you even play with my disabilities at all. (for those who don't know, check my profile to understand) Don't make assumptions about people, it is never a good idea. Ask some of the higher end people I do play. I played in Wednesday War tonight like I do every week. I killed Ticklemyiguana, a highly talented, skilled player that I have a great deal of respect for. (Granted he can kill me wayyy more but at least I have to skill to do it sometimes.) Do you honestly think you could? I doubt it. Ask any of the other players I've played with either as Nov8tr, I_Come_In_Peace or Old_Man_Nov if I'm a decent player. Am I satisfied with where my  MMR is now? No, I'm working on bringing it up even more. I have no plans on stopping learning or relearning what I use to know. I will continue to get better because I am willing to put the necessary  work in to do so.

 

And finally to get back to what this post was even about in the first place. It was not about your opinion of my "shameful" MMR. It was about problems with the algorithm that control how MMR is decided by the system. Some of the things it does doesn't make a great deal of sense. That is what this thread is about. But thank you for your opinion. And Lioot, yeah that is the kind of thing I mean. And thanks for the tip MacTep, hadn't heard that before. VisionCloud and Hyginos, yeah there are a lot of opinions about how it works. I've heard quite a few. Even several different ones from people who have been here for a long time. One thing I will say is it is easy to go down in MMR fast but slow for the most part to come back up. Bottom line for me is fun. I am not here for competition play, I am too old for that. And yeah, I have fun. So it's all good.

 

 

OH FUZZY BUNNY!

 

I M SOOOO SORRY  i Miss typed

 

I was refering to MY mmr not yours I M SOOOO SORRY for any confusion

 

I am sincerely sorry for any offendings

 

Groll

[Grollourdo]

I ll edit my post i m soooo sorry for ever ofending you

[Ninja_Goat]

@Grollourdo

 

You shouldn't worry about it, you just miss typed an I as a u , it was pretty obvious you were talking about yourself.

 

His reaction was way over the top and to be honest I've seen other examples of it, it ain't hard to find.

 

You, from what i have seen, have always posted politely and constructively, and there was no reason to believe you were insulting him,  he could have just asked you after all instead of "rant mode".

 

Don't let it put you off and have a nice day.

 

 

P.S. You shouldn't feel your MMR is shameful, we are all what we are.  Mine is 2,100 and I don't care at all if someone is 2,500 or more.

 

P.P.S.  Do you think I will get a rant as well ??  Let's wait and see :)

[Elite_is_salty]

Fact: I don't read WOT's.

Edited by Elite, 30 April 2015 - 04:45 AM.

[BaronSaturday]

I would put in a ticket. They can probably track it. I've come across match making bugs before. I was playing SCii. I was about to get into Silver for the first time. I won a match and only scanned the score screen. I won a few more and noted I was still bronze. I thought it was strange, but I played one more. Lost. Headed to bed, got up and played another. I had won and it was a really good TvZ. Like I was on point. My micro was strong, my macro was good, I predicted the speedling push and teched into fire in the nick of time, and finished with a bio flamer all in no vacs all SCVs. It paid off. I noticed my score dropped by 38 points. I dubmitted a ticket, they check it out and reversed sll of the scores from the four matches I had won. I was solidly silver.

[?FTD? eXeon]

I seem to remember one of the ADH devs saying that MMR going up or down based solely on your score/min vs the server median, then how much is decided by the difference between your MMR and that of the server

Adhesive never mentioned this unless I somehow missed it, it is just the assumption of a large majority of players that this is how it works.

[BaronSaturday]

Well, if they're using Glicko it should have to do with how well you've scored against an infividual, or in this case 11 individuals vBulletin relative to their mmr. Not the servers mmr and not the median mmr. It's going to tally up your pointd relstive to everyone elses points and mmr, add them up and divide by 11. So you will get an average number based on your score vs everyone else. I hope this makes sense.

[Grollourdo]

@Grollourdo

 

You shouldn't worry about it, you just miss typed an I as a u , it was pretty obvious you were talking about yourself.

 

His reaction was way over the top and to be honest I've seen other examples of it, it ain't hard to find.

 

You, from what i have seen, have always posted politely and constructively, and there was no reason to believe you were insulting him,  he could have just asked you after all instead of "rant mode".

 

Don't let it put you off and have a nice day.

 

 

P.S. You shouldn't feel your MMR is shameful, we are all what we are.  Mine is 2,100 and I don't care at all if someone is 2,500 or more.

 

P.P.S.  Do you think I will get a rant as well ??  Let's wait and see :)

 

 

Ok thank you XD

 

but i still kinda feel guilty if i accidentally hurt him so i still would like to apologize XD

 

Thank you tho XD

[Loglino]

I play like 2200 but I am still under 2k. I know how you feel. I should probably find a mech I can play "stellar" at instead of just playing the bruiser or some other mech I am trying to play for fun. It will probably be the scout because I played a few matches with the 2500+ mmr people last night and I had a score pretty close to theirs (like 100 below, that's good) when I played as it.
Almost killed Xacius a couple of times.
Off topic:
I remember when I thought I was one of the best people in the game and no one was above 2.2k.

Edited by Loglino, 30 April 2015 - 08:44 AM.

[Nov8tr]

Thank you Grollourdo I got your message. Not a problem. As I've said before you can't be mean to your friends (and for those who don't know, Grollourdo is a friend. Check my friends list on my profile) Since it was a honest mistake no big deal. I would not say it was obvious by any stretch of the imagination. I'll remember that Goat when the cops come for ya because you posted "I stabbed him" instead of "u stabbed him. LOL No you do not get a rant, why did you want one? If you ask nicely I will if you just really, really want one. Just let me know. And MMR is nothing for ANYONE to feel shameful about. It is like saying I'm rich and your not. Don't have nothing to do with nothing but a game. Grollourdo, forget it. It's fine.  Everyone makes mistakes, it's part of life. Don't feel guilty, it's cool. It's over and done my friend. OK? Take care and good luck.

[Nov8tr]

Groll I've edited my post so people know it was a honest error. Don't worry about it. Everyone makes mistakes, it's just part of life happening. :D I hope I didn't hurt your feelings either. Take care and good luck!!

[Grollourdo]

Thanks man XD

[Nov8tr]

And the bottom line is PIZZA FOR THE WIN!! PEPPERONI & SAUSAGE & MUSHROOMS (or BLACK OLIVES) WITH EXTRA CHEESE!! Yes Pizza is the perfect meal.

It has meat (pepperoni, sausage), vegetables (tomato sauce, mushrooms or black olives), dairy (cheese) and spices to bring it all together!! Yes lets all have Pizza tonight!!

 

[Grollourdo]

O.o ...







YAY!!!

[MacTep_6oT]

Nov8tr!

This is a fun game away, bro!

Do not worry about mmr, I have a couple of alt accounts (one ~ @ 1700) 1400 in 1800, as you pleasure.

And that was posted on forum for a lot of months ago, the ability / hand-eye coord / reaction time will decrease from an average of age of 30, then increase to a higher level of 50 or older.

Thus, the "science" on the basis of age only chance I should have the average MMR of about 1.1% higher than you. : D

 

edits. google translate such a PITA

Edited by MacTep_6oT, 02 May 2015 - 04:26 AM.

[LaurenEmily]

I used to be stuck at 1800-1900 for a pretty long time and couldn't get past that no matter how much i tried. Then suddenly something happened and i got better. Just take your time and practice, as long as you're having fun in the games you play it shouldn't matter really.

[Nov8tr]

Nov8tr!

This is a fun game away, bro!

Do not worry about mmr, I have a couple of alt accounts (one ~ @ 1700) 1400 in 1800, as you pleasure.

And that was posted on forum for a lot of months ago, the ability / hand-eye coord / reaction time will decrease from an average of age of 30, then increase to a higher level of 50 or older.

Thus, the "science" on the basis of age only chance I should have the average MMR of about 1.1% higher than you. : D

 

edits. google translate such a PITA

 

 

I used to be stuck at 1800-1900 for a pretty long time and couldn't get past that no matter how much i tried. Then suddenly something happened and i got better. Just take your time and practice, as long as you're having fun in the games you play it shouldn't matter really.

 

Thnx for the replies. Yeah I use to be a LOT better back in CLOSED BETA and the first half of OPEN BETA. I was playing a lot then, even more than now. And I play too much now. LOL I just slowed down, didn't care and just played anyone and any match in any country. It dropped a lot. Then the hackers hit wholesale. It was totally whack. I quit playing about Feb of 2014. Just came back a month ago when Reloaded took over. I have a lot of medical problems to deal with. (check my profile if ya don't know) So I just play for fun now. I do play only on 3 star servers and I have been slowly crawling back up. But I have no intention of going comp. I enjoy playing with my old friends from way back in the day on War Wednesday. Nice, really enjoy that. Some of my friends from back then I've never played with because I was never in their MMR bracket, lol. It nice seeing some of the people I watched come after me doing so well now. Puts a smile on my face. Well everyone take care, gonna take a break. I'm tired, been playing for about 7 hours now, grin. :D