46 replies to this topic

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

I'm not convinced "mech game" and "arena shooter" are mutually exclusive,

 

They potentially might be, outside of the small niche hawken already dominates. I think hawken lies way too far on the afps side to really appeal to more conservative mech fans. And I think the combining of genres is more brutal on new casual players than either genre is on its own. Not only do new players have keep up with the maneuvers and aim of an afps, but they have to do so while fighting against the limitations that come with a mech. (turn rate, slow movement outside of boosting/dodges, fuel management, ammo management) That, I feel, makes the skill gap rather insane.

 

I don't think your average afps player will really take an interest to hawken either. All the things people really enjoy about afps like tearing through maps and crazy flick shots have hard restrictions placed on them in hawken. Restrictions that just really don't sit well with that crowd. And while hawken may be blazing fast for a mech game, it's honestly fairly slow for an afps. That's the genre I come from and enjoy playing, and coming to hawken the only thing that really held much interest to me are the A classes and the raider due to blitz. Now, when it comes down to it, afps is really all about the DM. Hawken DM really does hold a lot of great potential, but I feel it's often overshadowed by a death ball of focus fire anyways. Even if an afps player could get past hawkens limitations to see the potential in it's dm, I doubt they would jive well with the poor maps, sub par game modes, and a few exceptionally gimicky class designs.

 

And that's IF they overlook the limitations. A large portion of that crowd is highly dismissive, and even the open minded ones I've seen just don't get into it.

 

what i glean from most of this is what struck me when i went looking for old pre-OB trailers: this is NOT the Hawken which won the awards, got all the rave reviews, and what i imagine many people load up and expect to be playing---and likely a major reason they don't stay around.

knock just a little bit off the speed, fatten the armor back up, beef up the weapons, kill the tech (or alter its heal-beam into "something else"), and get those sound effects back to the old quality of instinctively tightening your grip in anticipation of the shock wave.

back to more dirt, more clutter, the atmosphere of tramping around on a dying planet.

yes, i raged in Sept 2013. it was not a Good Feeling. it's not coming back, but hopefully some of the pre-Asc Hawken can be modeled after.

 

Soon.

 

ADH clearly realized the downsides of their niche that I outlined above, because they've always done a real sneaky job of marketing it as way clunkier and gritty than it actually is. I think for hawken to really expand and reach it's potential it has to choose one side or the other. The option is definitely not the arena side.

 

You're totally correct. The hawken that generated so much hype and excitement was this much more gritty dirty hawken.

 

I don't know though, this is a bit rambly for me. I'm not entirely sure hawken could do much better either way.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

 

ADH clearly realized the downsides of their niche that I outlined above, because they've always done a real sneaky job of marketing it as way clunkier and gritty than it actually is. I think for hawken to really expand and reach it's potential it has to choose one side or the other. The option is definitely not the arena side.

 

You're totally correct. The hawken that generated so much hype and excitement was this much more gritty dirty hawken.

 

I don't know though, this is a bit rambly for me. I'm not entirely sure hawken could do much better either way.

 

I'm not exactly sure why they changed it so much to the point the 'gritty and the immersion' pretty much plummeted.  Yes, optimization and those with horrid fps did get massive increases, but I wonder why they went with such a sterile look.  Probably because of the VR headset hype that was all the rage back then.  Though, those 8000ish or so players during steam pretty much dropped the game thanks to the weird in-between.  

 

It's indeed faster than the typical mech game, and it's slower than the twitch shooter.  The speed changes were fine, but the HP decrease probably was what made peeps drop the game more.  That was what probably made people unfairly compare Hawken with COD.  Other than that, I think it's at a good balance.

 

Either way, I know Hawken probably won't be as popular as we'd all like to see it as, but these are just my opinions as to how Hawken lost it's flavor for the peeps who left other than grinding and other such stuff.

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 14 June 2015 - 01:16 PM.

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

I'm not exactly sure why they changed it so much to the point the 'gritty and the immersion' pretty much plummeted.

 

ADH did not know how to optimize a game. Even after removing all the immersive stuff hawken still remains very poorly optimized.

 

I also thought it was strange how they had to remove health and fuel from the cockpit model because it was too resource intensive, yet there's still a bunch of animated stuff on the cockpit model.

Edited by Massive_Assailant_Stingray, 14 June 2015 - 01:19 PM.

[Dedhed]

I honestly don't remember pre ascension too well, though I've played since Alpha 2 <--- March? 2012 was it? I do remember the game being more enjoyable, though. As others have said, longer time to kill/die and everything did feel heavier. Once it moved to Steam it seemed to look "cleaner" too, which may relate to what others are talking about... My memory from that time period is shot.

 

Point is --> another +1 for grittier, heavier, longer ttk/d Hawken

Edited by Dedhed, 14 June 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Drusus]

As I see it since returning to the game, the game feel is off in the following areas:

 

1. Momentum - there doesn't appear to be any.  That alone throws off all our sensations regarding weight, size and general 'mecha-ness' of what we are piloting in a significant way.  I have played games where I have more momentum to overcome as a human being than I do as this 2-3 story robo-tank with rockets.  Experience wise, that is just way off to me.
2. TTK is too short - I'd argue that this is two fold because it feels like we just start using our weapons in a fire fight and suddenly we're pushing the defenseless line.  I would also argue this may very well be a function of the fact we're just using a hit point system as opposed to a more meaningful damage track but that ship has likely sailed into the sunset.  You can't dodge or be tactical in the moment if you are dead the moment you are under attack.  This is particularly pronounced for light mechs, glass cannon or not.
3. Heat Buildup is too fast - I think this is the mirror of the TTK being so small.  It has to be super fast because any sustained fire is hellaciously lethal at present.  But this too feels wrong.  Either it needs to respond to cooling off more quickly (so the moment you're not shooting it's cooling) or the rate of gain should be significantly reduced as part of any improvement to TTK/durability.  I'm all in favour of a heat system.  I'm not in favour of heat being so rapid that I wish I had ammunition instead.
4. Healing Orbs - I'm still puzzled why this was put in the system, same with the Technician.  I quite enjoy piloting my technician, but in truth, I'd be happier if it was only able to rapidly heal mechs that powered down into self repair rather than being the 'combat healer on an energy leash' it is now.  Similarly, the healing drops become a needed component just to manage even light incoming damage due to our shallow hitpoint pools.  I confess I have a personal bias against the 'green healing leash' as a construct as a rule, so that may be affecting my perspective.  Downtime reducing healing = good.  Any power that turns you into a heal-bot = bad.

Other perspectives will of course vary but I cannot help but think the more 'twitchy' Hawken is the further from a better overall offering it's gone for uniqueness, value and playability.  There are a myriad of shooters occupying that spot (most quite poorly) and Hawken has the right context to differentiate in another direction, in my opinion, in theme, content and experience offered.

Edited by Drusus, 21 June 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[Hek_naw]

I liked Drusus' post while being aware addressing those points would imply signifficant changes to gameplay. Which usually backfires with many consolidated players (yeah, game is a beta version we all know this).

 

Having said that, I would really like to be able to compare different versions of the game: some with different changes applied and one without changes.

[antiskub]

I used to play a decent amount of this game.  I ultimately found it a little too arcade-y. I think a closer comparison than CoD would perhaps be counter strike. 

 

Was hoping for something with a little more "weight" to it.  

 

so I'm throwing my hat in with that crowd.