37 replies to this topic

[Interrobang87]

hi friends

 

i'm currently sitting in an empty siege lobby and thought "wouldn't it be great if i could just add some bots to this so i still play when no one else is around?"

 

also i was impressed earlier playing some coop bot TDM that when you're by yourself the bots are actually pretty good. Yes, when there are lower mmr players in the match they just kind of walk around - but when you're by yourself they scale up to your level pretty well.

 

anyway, let us add bots to our games to fill spots in the game - cheers

[Trigary]

Even players can't understand siege tactics, bots would be a bit hard to implement :D

[Interrobang87]

i'd agree for the finer points - but something like *no ship? get EU! - or - ship up? go AA!* shouldn't be a problem

 

ya'know, just to get the game going

[Charcoal]

AI: Tweak it to listen for "AA", "Escort" and "Fetch"

Also, Have it aware of the EU status of both teams

 

It's not going to beat many experienced folks, but It might be enough for new folks to learn the basics.

 

* Yeah, I acknowledge this is easier said than done :)

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I think a team of bots that are able to listen to a few commands like Charcoal suggested would play a better game of siege than most pub matches.

[HorseHeadProphet]

It could absolutely be done, Unreal Engine supports bot-pathing and the 'addbots' command is present in other UE games. But if there are no bot-paths, they will just do their best to attack the enemies, or maybe roam around. Also, in UT, they will respond to commands and help requests, with varying degrees of effectiveness.

[ATX22]

Could be good, could be bad... could backfire if there are enough people out there who hate PvE and could end up having a hard time finding PvP only.  It'd also be another point people would latch onto on the whole "Hawken is ded/dying" thing.

 

If the bots themselves aren't competent at a given game mode (MA & Siege), I'd say no.  Same if they're obliterating players left and right. At the very least, I'd suggest making adding bots a vote-able option.  Say 75% needed to add them, min number of connected people needed to vote as 1, and require a new vote after a round ends.

[The_Silencer]

having a couple of low MMR servers doing that would not be so terrible idea, imo

 

note: what I'd like to see, at least as an experiment, would be team autoswitching (volunteer at first glance or forced if no one switches) within those games in which a blatant pub stomp occurs ,, mostly in TDM

[IRON_LORD]

Regarding the aim, there would always be people saying "these bots have aimbot" and other people saying "this bot is worst than a 5-years-old newbie" depending on the skill level.

[ATX22]

having a couple of low MMR servers doing that would not be so terrible idea, imo

 

note: what I'd like to see, at least as an experiment, would be team autoswitching (volunteer at first glance or forced if no one switches) within those games in which a blatant pub stomp occurs ,, mostly in TDM

 

I think the auto-balance used to work that way in Hawken, it caused some raging and rage-quitting when it force balanced people in the past.  Which, if you have a single person pub-stomping in a low MMR server, are you going to shuffle the high-skilled player back and forth or just stack the server against them only to have more fodder on the other team?

 

The MM currently fails at keeping people lumped together based on skill, it currently peppers low mmr servers with high MMR players, and that's ignoring anyone who gives in to their inner troll and smurfs to pub-stomp.

 

I still think bots would be OK.. but not something that's switched on by default fooling people into joining empty servers populated only by bots.

Edited by ATX22, 29 February 2016 - 04:53 PM.

[Interrobang87]

 

 

I still think bots would be OK.. but not something that's switched on by default fooling people into joining empty servers populated only by bots.

 

 

I agree - the point was if you wanted to play siege or MA and you're just just chilling in a lobby forever *insert forever alone*,  instead of sitting there with yar thumb up yar fuzzy bunny, you could just tack on a few bots and away you go

[PoopSlinger]

Compared to noobs playing siege, Bots would at least hit stuff.

[StubbornPuppet]

I wouldn't put them in "empty matches", but it would certainly be something for those times when a player or two quits or a match starts without even teams.  Just something to fill out the match so that things can move along and play as intended.

[The_Silencer]

And what if humans want to join in while bots are playing the match? I can foresee a number of situations into that.. some of these resulting even fun whilst many others not so much

[StubbornPuppet]

And what if humans want to join in while bots are playing the match? I can foresee a number of situations into that.. some of these resulting even fun whilst many others not so much

 

I would put the player on spectator cam for the bot they are about to replace.  When that bot dies, the player spawns.

 

Bots would have to know to act aggressively/recklessly when a live player is waiting to replace them so they are more likely to die.

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 01 March 2016 - 01:27 PM.

[ATX22]

I wonder if this could also lead to unintended consequences... such as this leading to the MMR ranges per server being tightened/locked down again.  The argument from high MMR players would inevitably be switched from "I just want to play" to "I don't want to play against bots".

[The_Silencer]

I would put the player on spectator cam for the bot they are about to replace.  When that bot dies, the player spawns.

 

 

what do you mean? .. spawning in the same place on where that bot died?

[ATX22]

what do you mean? .. spawning in the same place on where that bot died?

 

Sounds more like something to keep players waiting to spawn in from getting overly bored.  Or a fun game of keep-away from the bot controlled mech to see how long someone would wait in queue.

 

IMHO, it'd be best to detonate the bot-controlled mech the instant a real player is ready to spawn in.  Hawken is already too much of a waiting game when it comes to waiting for everyone to ready up, starting a match, waiting at the look-at-me carousel followed by the long wait for the map to change.  Only thing Reloaded would need to decide on is if any points are awarded to anyone who did damage to the bot-controlled mech that dropped out to make room for a gamer.

[Interrobang87]

bots would explode once a real player loads and hits launch from the garage 

[The_Silencer]

Lol

On a serious note, I'd rather put bots into a similar state plus the same visuals you get when a team mate "dies" in Co-Op mode. After a short period of time -once the human pilot gets in the match- the bot's holo representation vanishes and things go ..

 

Still, I find replacing bots with humans -in the same coordinates- on map to be, to say the least, conflictive

[Interrobang87]

ok simply stated

 

it would be great if we could add bots to a game mode when it takes forever for real people to join

 

once a real person does join the first bot in line pops and the real person spawns IN THE USUAL SPAWN ZONE wherever that may be

 

 

the whole point of this was i was sitting in a siege lobby for 10 minutes waiting for someone to play with - it doesn't have to be complicated lol

[The_Silencer]

ok simply stated

 

it would be great if we could add bots to a game mode when it takes forever for real people to join

 

once a real person does join the first bot in line pops and the real person spawns IN THE USUAL SPAWN ZONE wherever that may be

 

 

the whole point of this was i was sitting in a siege lobby for 10 minutes waiting for someone to play with - it doesn't have to be complicated lol

I think everyone in here knows that feeling upon a time.. personally I try to join in servers with, at least, some few players into it

 

designing is not an easy task. Stockpiling and ignoring inconsistences while you're move forward may end up ruining the original idea with ease

 

BTW, you should be glad about the amount of feedback the guys have written in here, your topic ;)

Edited by The_Silencer, 03 March 2016 - 09:31 AM.

[ATX22]

ok simply stated

 

it would be great if we could add bots to a game mode when it takes forever for real people to join

 

once a real person does join the first bot in line pops and the real person spawns IN THE USUAL SPAWN ZONE wherever that may be

 

 

the whole point of this was i was sitting in a siege lobby for 10 minutes waiting for someone to play with - it doesn't have to be complicated lol

 

Done right, adding bots into Hawken's otherwise PvP primary game modes could be a good thing.  It however needs to be done right.  Until Reloaded actually produces something, there's no way to gauge the level of effort and quality of work that can be expected of them (provided we're to ignore other Reloaded games...).  This is something that, if done right, I'm all for, but if they're going to screw it up, I'd rather not have it in Hawken making a bad situation worse... like driving people away faster than is already the case.

[The_Silencer]

To tell ya the truth, I'm playing mostly daily and I'm not having any trouble with "unpopulated" servers on the EU region. In team game modes, the match starts, sometimes with some few players and then, if not way before.., new players get in the match.

 

I don't play much on other regions so that's what "I may testify before the congress" here for now ;)

[StubbornPuppet]

^As a counter-point, I actually tried to play twice this weekend... but all I could find was 2 full TDM matches (no room to join) and 2 players sitting in a DM lobby on Saturday at about 4pm Central and on Sunday at about 3pm Central, 3 full TDM matches (no room to join) and 1 players sitting in a DM lobby.  Both times, I even tried to queue up for Siege until it timed out and MA until it timed out.

 

Since I won't play DM any more due to people using it as a 1v1 grudge match and for parties to team up on people... and since the TDM lobbies were full to the brim... I elected to go play something else.  I'd actually rather play Siege or MA.  I don't much care for TDM or DM anyhow.

 

It's just come to where I don't want to sit around and wait to play Hawken.

[The_Silencer]

^As a counter-point, I actually tried to play twice this weekend... but all I could find was 2 full TDM matches (no room to join) and 2 players sitting in a DM lobby on Saturday at about 4pm Central and on Sunday at about 3pm Central, 3 full TDM matches (no room to join) and 1 players sitting in a DM lobby.  Both times, I even tried to queue up for Siege until it timed out and MA until it timed out.

 

Since I won't play DM any more due to people using it as a 1v1 grudge match and for parties to team up on people... and since the TDM lobbies were full to the brim... I elected to go play something else.  I'd actually rather play Siege or MA.  I don't much care for TDM or DM anyhow.

 

It's just come to where I don't want to sit around and wait to play Hawken.

what's your actual MMR?

[TheButtSatisfier]

what's your actual MMR?

 

Woah there, that's impolite. That's like asking someone how big their salary or pp is.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 07 March 2016 - 03:01 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

^It is a little rude... but I'm guessing he has a reason for asking.  And, it turns out it's an interesting answer:

 

I hadn't looked in a very long time... and it's been a pretty long time since I played, until this weekend and again last night.

 

In the past, it was a thing that ones MMR would slowly decrease if they hadn't played for a while.  Nope, mine was still exactly the same as it was 7 months ago when I finally added scrimbot and checked it last night - 1879.

 

There was a time when my MMR was around 2150, but it started sliding very quickly back down to the 1900 level during the age of smurfing - partially because I stopped playing DM and TDM, partially because I refuse to leave servers when I'm getting annihilated - even by smurfs.

 

Now, last night there were certainly more matches to choose from... but it was all TDM.  Like 7 TDM matches.  I hung out in a Siege server with one other player for like 15 minutes before a couple more people joined and we finally got rolling.  But, that match only got up to 7-8 players.  We managed to get a second match going that had 8-9 players, and then it died after the podium with everyone leaving (probably because of what I'm going to post in another topic).   I didn't want to sit around for another 15 minutes waiting to start a sparsely populated, imbalanced match and decided to go read a book (Moby fuzzy bunny atm).

 

Anyhow, what was the point of asking my MMR?

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 08 March 2016 - 06:45 AM.

[DallasCreeper]

Anyhow, what was the point of asking my MMR?

My guess would be that different MMR players have different servers to choose from; getting locked out of server that are too high or low in skill for them. It's part of the reason why people smurf. 

[TheButtSatisfier]

My guess would be that different MMR players have different servers to choose from; getting locked out of server that are too high or low in skill for them. It's part of the reason why people smurf. 

 

IIRC, a player can auto-queue in a gametype (dm, tdm, ma, etc.) and matchmaker will do a quick scan to see if there's an open server with a MMR average in that player's range. If MM doesn't find one, it will wait somewhere between 5-20 seconds and just drop you in the next most appropriate game.

 

In the past that wasn't the case. Matchmaker would make you wait until it found a server with an appropriate MMR average for your account, and for very high MMR players that could take a very long time. Anecdotally speaking, there were a lot of smurf accounts created during this period, and many of them were created with the sole purpose of being able to join a match with the smurf's lower MMR.

 

Just so it's clear: you don't need a low MMR to join a match now. If you use auto-queue, matchmaker will put you in a server after a reasonable amount of time.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 09 March 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I'm currently reading "Moby Fuzzy".  Ha ha.  The filters are so ridiculously amusing sometimes.

[The_Silencer]

Woah there, that's impolite. That's like asking someone how big their salary or pp is.

Well.. I asked about that just to understand why he's having the situation. Wasn't my intention to sound rude nor unpolite. Anyway, man or woman can always answer to that something like: I'm +1800 or -1800, or above 2000, thus without having to reveal what your exact MMR is.. I probably was too straight there

[StubbornPuppet]

Well.. I asked about that just to understand why he's having the situation. Wasn't my intention to sound rude nor unpolite. Anyway, man or woman can always answer to that something like: I'm +1800 or -1800, or above 2000, thus without having to reveal what your exact MMR is.. I probably was too straight there

 

So, what conclusion did you come to?  My MMR is so 'average' that I doubt it plays a role.  Especially since I can go to the server list and have it set to show all matches... and the only ones it won't let me join are those which are full.

[The_Silencer]

So, what conclusion did you come to?  My MMR is so 'average' that I doubt it plays a role.  Especially since I can go to the server list and have it set to show all matches... and the only ones it won't let me join are those which are full.

dunno, I'm afraid

Edited by The_Silencer, 10 March 2016 - 08:45 AM.

[6ixxer]

Lol, *empty* lobbies?

So most lobbies are just a bunch of bots smack-talking about humans until one comes along?
Is it like the light in the fridge? do they stop talking about us when we join?
 

[6ixxer]

if pathing worked and they respond to certain game events.

collect Eu
Return eu
defend the AA
Help requested, so long as they are not in combat
enemy spotted, this might be trollworthy tho

Perhaps if you enter a lobby that is empty, it can add bots after a set number of minutes. Next human joins the team that has fewer humans. spawns when a bot from that team dies. if even then they go on the team opposite to the one that most recently got a human (perhaps bots on the less human team can get a dynamic skill increase?). if 2 humans leave a team then it needs to rebalance to get even humans again.

[wolfrock]

we talked about this last year. even more relevant today.

[The_Silencer]

Is it like the light in the fridge?
 

AFAIK, it does not blink here ;P