18 replies to this topic

[DeeRax]

How do I do it? What is the purpose of this p.o.s.?

Hestoned gave me some tips in a pub a few days ago, that essentially boiled down to:
1. Play something else.

2. 'Snipe' with it; avoid CQC.
3. Get gud with the KLA's 'grenade' mode.

I imagine others might echo these tips to some degree, but I'd like to hear some folks' thoughts nonetheless. How to actually play it?, what internals and items to use?, what do I do once I do find myself in cqc?, etc., etc. Also, tips for landing the damn pucks (Aside from playing eocr exclusively for 2000 hours, yeh I get it). Also, accuracy-wise how good is 'gud,' for both the eocr and the KLA? Blahblah.

It's certainly a fun mech when it works, but I generally can only get it to 'work' against lower-mmr players (In relation to myself), and fuzzy bunnyng bots. Anyone on my level, I can barely hold my own with it (not even, more often than not), and anyone better than me, well, forget it. But... When it works.. And I get lucky... Feels good man. But why should I want to play it over anything else? Just for cool points? What makes this mech unique and interesting, but also an asset to the rest of my team?

So, any thoughts or suggestions on the matter will be appreciated. Thnx.

[CraftyDus]

Put the pucks where they will be in the future

Save the kla for their next beat.

Make a tight pattern when they are in the air with your puck-stroke.

Counterlogicman likes to use his air dodge for this, which works for him.

I tend to use my crosshair motion alone more often than not to "hawk a loogi" of pucks onto their hitbox when they fly.

Both methods are effective.

 

 

Deathmatch with it as much as possible.

You're gonna take some lumps for a month or so.

It's going to color your ability to watch people's thoughts as they move around the game eventually.

 

What makes it an asset for your team?

 

Well by itself, nothing.  It's a very loud handicap.

It makes you a better person through suffering.

Marinating in it for a few months makes the eoc-infil a dumbed-down cakewalk.

 

It is the most elegant weapon/mech combo Hawken has to offer asthetically.

It is the vintage wine in the cellar, while the party upstairs consumes the budlight of tow/sustain mechs.

They are louder, cheaper, and more plentiful.

Fortify yourself with your disdain of their easy basic stink.

You are a temporary installation avant-garde performance artist in this mech.

 

There is no spoon.

[CrimsonKaim]

Though I am anything but good with a Raider I use it like this:

 

- Mid range harrass burst

- Finish off mid-health mechs (B-Classes or repairing C ones)

- Alpha a camping sniper

- Oneshot the Technician

- Run away with ability after you killed one in a 1v5

[PoopSlinger]

Don't play eoc raider. Raider is for charging groups of people while screaming fuzzy bunny YOU.  It just doesn't work with EOC, its not raiderly.

[dorobo]

You would still need to put in hours to get good or score in the top half. If i would get back to it i would probably need to relearn it all over again.

 

[DemitronPrime]

Don't play eoc raider. Raider is for charging groups of people while screaming fuzzy bunny YOU.  It just doesn't work with EOC, its not raiderly.

 

Im not overly sure, I have seen a couple EOC Raiders rip groups apart

[lo_spaghetto]

Can someone tell me how EOC raider can be better than EOC infil? Or is it just for the style? I see how it has the highest burst, but does MIRV work well with EOC?

[Flifang]

Generally with this mech and weapon combo, anything you can do with it that you can with another mech; you need to take five good steps away from your enemy. For corner play, you benefit greatly from being farther from the cover being used so you can get a better angle with the KLA. A lot of using this mech will come down to instinct and prediction. Always try and keep your distance when you can and try and get some elevation on your foes and fire where they're tightly grouped if you can. Never stop moving as you can't really fight back well in CQC unless you get very good at using shield with splash weapons. A.C. is very nice especially if you use it in tandem with blitz allowing you to boost forward while charging your eoc and then fly up and strafe to the side to get a good look at the enemy, fire, then air dodge back into cover. Most of the time save your blitz for fleeing or for sneak attacks, but when sneaking don't boost with it just walk and if you get caught trying to go for a nice alpha run away fast while you still have that speed boost. Kiting is now how you do things. Manage your fuel and keep all enemies and their locations in check you're squishy. 

[Kopra]

Can someone tell me how EOC raider can be better than EOC infil? Or is it just for the style? I see how it has the highest burst, but does MIRV work well with EOC?

 

- KLA projectile is 50% faster than GL (120 m/s vs. 80 m/s), so up to 75 meters you can fire both weapons at the same time and the KLA will hit in the same time window where a fully charged EOC will hit its first and last puck, while for GL this is ~33 m. This is significant when you consider repairing enemies, who can start dodging the very instant they take damage. It's not impossible to dodge away and only take 1-2 pucks worth of damage, but most likely you can get the full salvo in -> if you can get the secondary damage in the same window, it's harder to avoid; the repair guy needs to mash his shift +A/D buttons faster, which is totally a skillful skill move and which could totally not be automated by a commercial gaming peripheral or anything.

 

- You can charge your EOC while Blitzing, which makes it a little more flexible in that regard, not being stuck to just walking & dodging if you want to charge the EOC on an Infil (The Infil being able to cloak & dodgewalk while having an EOC charged is not bad either). You can then charge the EOC while boosting in combat or when pursuing an enemy which you know is repairing (and can't see you coming on the radar) and hit with the full burst.

 

- Because most of the EOC's power lies in direct hits, its splash damage power is really bad -> you can try to utilize it in CQC using MIRV which has a similar weakness which you can then turn into a "strength".

 

- If you end up in open combat, the extra armor helps in surviving until the enemy dodges -> hitting your weapons becomes easier (although you should be attacking busy opponents or otherwise unaware, the EOC is really bad when an enemy with a brain is aware of your existence). Unless the enemy dies from those weapons (which they usually don't because they're standing on a pile of orbs in an open field or have full armor already) it's not an effective approach, so just avoid those situations unless you can finish the enemy very quickly or have a ridiculous armor advantage.

[lo_spaghetto]

- KLA projectile is 50% faster than GL (120 m/s vs. 80 m/s), so up to 75 meters you can fire both weapons at the same time and the KLA will hit in the same time window where a fully charged EOC will hit its first and last puck, while for GL this is ~33 m. This is significant when you consider repairing enemies, who can start dodging the very instant they take damage. It's not impossible to dodge away and only take 1-2 pucks worth of damage, but most likely you can get the full salvo in -> if you can get the secondary damage in the same window, it's harder to avoid; the repair guy needs to mash his shift +A/D buttons faster, which is totally a skillful skill move and which could totally not be automated by a commercial gaming peripheral or anything.

 

- You can charge your EOC while Blitzing, which makes it a little more flexible in that regard, not being stuck to just walking & dodging if you want to charge the EOC on an Infil (The Infil being able to cloak & dodgewalk while having an EOC charged is not bad either). You can then charge the EOC while boosting in combat or when pursuing an enemy which you know is repairing (and can't see you coming on the radar) and hit with the full burst.

 

- Because most of the EOC's power lies in direct hits, its splash damage power is really bad -> you can try to utilize it in CQC using MIRV which has a similar weakness which you can then turn into a "strength".

 

- If you end up in open combat, the extra armor helps in surviving until the enemy dodges -> hitting your weapons becomes easier (although you should be attacking busy opponents or otherwise unaware, the EOC is really bad when an enemy with a brain is aware of your existence). Unless the enemy dies from those weapons (which they usually don't because they're standing on a pile of orbs in an open field or have full armor already) it's not an effective approach, so just avoid those situations unless you can finish the enemy very quickly or have a ridiculous armor advantage.

soooo EOC raider is for sneaking? what do you do when a whole enemy group sees you? what do you do when your team is engaging the whole enemy team? what to do when zerk/flyingfuzzy bunnys appear? when to press F? what kind of friends do you help? 

 

sorry for all these questions. i just want to believe that every mech is useful 

[DeeRax]

- KLA projectile is 50% faster than GL (120 m/s vs. 80 m/s), so up to 75 meters you can fire both weapons at the same time and the KLA will hit in the same time window where a fully charged EOC will hit its first and last puck, while for GL this is ~33 m. This is significant when you consider repairing enemies, who can start dodging the very instant they take damage.

I don't think anything I've done in this game has been as satisfying as blitzing over to where I saw an enemy flee, and then directly landing an entire charged EOC + KLA while they repair (From fairly far away, too).

[CounterlogicMan]

Lots of great advice here.

 

As someone who plays the EOC raider extensively, and against really good players. I'd like to think I am one of the best EOC Raider pilots in Hawken. It is my favorite mech in Hawken. When I play these days I am either playing in a pub with EOC raider, or practicing/scrimming with A-A.  If you want to know more about EOC Raider stuff follow me on twitch.tv/evaius. When I stream Hawken I will almost certainly be playing the EOC raider. Off the top of my head I can impart this advice.

 

It is  all about your ability to predict what enemies are doing and going to do.

 

You have to play a lot of mind games with the eoc raider.

 

You are the biggest threat when no one is paying attention to you. Use these opportunities to line up sick bursts in any way you can.

 

Always be trying to maneuver in a way that lets you line up a burst. 

 

Don't underestimate the amount of damage walking over the pucks does. Smart placement can be the end of low health enemies. It can also startle high/med health enemies.

 

You can't take a lot of mechs in a straight up 1v1. Especially if you are not great at eoc raider.

 

Always have an escape path in mind.

 

Sometimes being aggressive is okay. Get in kill a repairing mech and run like hell. The EOC Raider burst  + det is massive damage and most effective on stationary targets. 

 

Never assume you are going to hit more than 60% of the damage from a burst on any moving target.

 

Prioritize targets you can hit rather than high value targets, unless the high value target is stationary. 

 

Targets you can reliably hit in order of easy to hard:

Healing Targets

Stationary targets

Mechs waiting to corner poke

C class mech

Walking Targets/Out of Fuel Targets

B Class mech

A Class mech

Airborne mech

 

 

One of the biggest struggles you will face in an EOC raider is flying targets.

Against flying targets:

 

Use detonators to force flying targets to the ground. (detonate it above them)

 

Waste their fuel by focusing on dodging around, feinting corner pokes, and breaking line of sight. Once they are out of fuel they should be easy target.

 

Use the mirv to hit them out of the air. The mirv is pretty reliable against air targets and can potentially force them to the ground if you hit the upper portion of the flying mech.

 

Practice enough with the eoc to the point you can hit flying targets. This is possible but very hard to do and not a very reliable method against skilled flyers.

 

Hope this information helps! The mech is a lot of fun but takes a lot of work to be skilled at. Also, Hestoned is a noob at EOC Raider.

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 18 May 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[EM1O]

line up on your target

hit the MIRV and swoop in

Kill

hit your ability for speed and swoop out. heal.

 

repeat

 

win

Edited by EM1 Oh, 18 May 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[DeeRax]

I don't think anything I've done in this game has been as satisfying as blitzing over to where I saw an enemy flee, and then directly landing an entire charged EOC + KLA while they repair (From fairly far away, too).

I take it back; Landing a full salvo on a mid-air, mid-dodge AC scout (And the subsequent explosion) was better.
Sure, it was largely luck, but...


Thank those wiser than I for all the tips (and vids with tips in 'em) (huehue).

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 18 May 2016 - 09:26 PM.

[Kopra]

soooo EOC raider is for sneaking? what do you do when a whole enemy group sees you? what do you do when your team is engaging the whole enemy team? what to do when zerk/flyingfuzzy bunnys appear? when to press F? what kind of friends do you help? 

 

sorry for all these questions. i just want to believe that every mech is useful 

 

For sneaking? Yes/No. Generally you should catch unaware opponents which implies sneaking or flanking. The Raider's toolkit, basically having a decent armor and speed means you can force your way to destroy damaged enemies. It's the same for all Raider primaries and for the Raider in general, but for the EOC it's not as straightforward as it is for hitscan where you click at things and they die. It feels like that almost every game mechanic counters the EOC Raider in some way and smart opponents abuse the heck out of it.

 

If you see a group, depending on the distance and possible covers and the enemies mech selection, it can be described simply as fire your fuzzies in the best way you can and do not get killed. Get in closer to a better angle, but not too close so you can get away (with Blitz if needed) and not get instapwned with weapons that are essentially nukes with training wheels compared to the EOC. If those were described as a Venn diagram, it's possible that there is no perfect position for you as you are screwed in some way everywhere and you have to be leet as balls to manage if there are no stationary noobs for you to munch across the map. 

 

For the flying mechs and especially the zerker, your choices are 1. git gud, 2. use trickxs like the Detonator knockdown (if they don't dodge or press spacebar, they get knocked down and take even fall damage) 3. switch to hitscan and click the flying zerker to death or 4. do not engage alone, ever, let your teammates with hitscan and nukes deal with the space bar hero and assist with MIRV or try to get a few pucks in at least to improve at dealing with the flying circus.

But even then it's mostly not worth it, even if you hit things perfectly, the enemy always has a chance to deal a great deal of damage before you again get to attempt to strike.

Too many times I've initially hit a perfect stream of EOC pucks and a secondary shot, leaving a player to a sliver of armor left. In the 1.5 seconds it takes EOC to reload again, the Berserker can do the same amount of damage as I did, and then I will need to hit perfectly again; if I don't, I die. If I do hit, I still took a crapton of damage because of needing to overextend to finish a kill. It's also a good reason why chip damage is important because you finishing opponents alone depend on paltry chip damage.

Team up with hitscan buddies that can take attention and a pounding (Assault, Brawler, Vanguard) and strike on opponents that are focused on them, but also consider where your Reaper/SS/Hawkins Brawler is, as they can induce repairing and those are great for you to lay on your explosive diarrhea.

 

Press F when the guitar solo starts. The guitar solo also starts when you press F. Use it for anything and especially if you have the potential to do great things. If you fail, it's taken for granted. If you succeed your e-peen goes through the skybox in explosive diarrhea glory. At least until EOC gets buffed.

Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 20 May 2016 - 01:46 AM.

[lo_spaghetto]

For sneaking? Yes/No. Generally you should catch unaware opponents which implies sneaking or flanking. The Raider's toolkit, basically having a decent armor and speed means you can force your way to destroy damaged enemies. It's the same for all Raider primaries and for the Raider in general, but for the EOC it's not as straightforward as it is for hitscan where you click at things and they die. It feels like that almost every game mechanic counters the EOC Raider in some way and smart opponents abuse the heck out of it.

 

If you see a group, depending on the distance and possible covers and the enemies mech selection, it can be described simply as fire your fuzzies in the best way you can and do not get killed. Get in closer to a better angle, but not too close so you can get away (with Blitz if needed) and not get instapwned with weapons that are essentially nukes with training wheels compared to the EOC. If those were described as a Venn diagram, it's possible that there is no perfect position for you as you are screwed in some way everywhere and you have to be leet as balls to manage if there are no stationary noobs for you to munch across the map. 

 

For the flying mechs and especially the zerker, your choices are 1. git gud, 2. use trickxs like the Detonator knockdown (if they don't dodge or press spacebar, they get knocked down and take even fall damage) 3. switch to hitscan and click the flying zerker to death or 4. do not engage alone, ever, let your teammates with hitscan and nukes deal with the space bar hero and assist with MIRV or try to get a few pucks in at least to improve at dealing with the flying circus.

But even then it's mostly not worth it, even if you hit things perfectly, the enemy always has a chance to deal a great deal of damage before you again get to attempt to strike.

Too many times I've initially hit a perfect stream of EOC pucks and a secondary shot, leaving a player to a sliver of armor left. In the 1.5 seconds it takes EOC to reload again, the Berserker can do the same amount of damage as I did, and then I will need to hit perfectly again; if I don't, I die. If I do hit, I still took a crapton of damage because of needing to overextend to finish a kill. It's also a good reason why chip damage is important because you finishing opponents alone depend on paltry chip damage.

Team up with hitscan buddies that can take attention and a pounding (Assault, Brawler, Vanguard) and strike on opponents that are focused on them, but also consider where your Reaper/SS/Hawkins Brawler is, as they can induce repairing and those are great for you to lay on your explosive diarrhea.

 

Press F when the guitar solo starts. The guitar solo also starts when you press F. Use it for anything and especially if you have the potential to do great things. If you fail, it's taken for granted. If you succeed your e-peen goes through the skybox in explosive diarrhea glory. At least until EOC gets buffed.

LOOOL great read! My Epeen def needs some work

 

Basically, to EOC raider is to never face the enemy up front, and get them while they're weak?

 

Played some EOC raider last night. Against noobs it's great, but against good players, I just can't.

 

What do you do on some maps like bunker where they poke their lil heads out above them dunes? What if your team sux? What if some hitscan mech on the other team is dominating the game?

[Flifang]

I've also found that when in a tight spot, feigning a retreat can often yield a great shot opening if somebody decides to give chase.

Or, you could wait till they round a corner and pop your ability to rush past them and attempt to keep them out of LoS of you for as long as possible getting in juicy, choice full salvos in when they regain LoS only to have you break LoS again right away. This works pretty well on facility and certain points on prosk and frontline. Never had much luck on wreckage though. I blame corridor width and tall ceilings for this as it's easier to get blocked by anyone and  people could come around corners often in the air, however this makes hitting them with the KLA splash a breeze.

[DallasCreeper]

I've also found that when in a tight spot, feigning a retreat can often yield a great shot opening if somebody decides to give chase.

Or, you could wait till they round a corner and pop your ability to rush past them and attempt to keep them out of LoS of you for as long as possible getting in juicy, choice full salvos in when they regain LoS only to have you break LoS again right away. This works pretty well on facility and certain points on prosk and frontline. Never had much luck on wreckage though. I blame corridor width and tall ceilings for this as it's easier to get blocked by anyone and  people could come around corners often in the air, however this makes hitting them with the KLA splash a breeze.

This is basically how I lure people over Predator traps

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

predicting your enemy in high energy combat is where its at, when one would be in panic mode they are unlikely to think about those pucks if you are focused on laying them in his patch, nade mode is my favorite and most damaging of the two because i havent touched eoc in a long time, ill try practicing it tonight