7 replies to this topic

[GLYCH_04007]

So the common issue with the Incinerator is it's INSANE damage capability, Approximately 201.25 sustained damage per second (DPS). BUT its all based on direct visual contact. Sure you can suppress a corner, but 93 damage burst is nothing compared to what some other mechs can deal faster from longer ranges. My proposition changes all of the mechs weapons to re balance its' DPS without losing its' role in the game. Earlier today I made a spread sheet to help calculate damages and heat, and i got a solid set of numbers that I like.

 

B3-AR bby:

It can shoot 6 and 2/3 rounds a second for 15 damage and 1.5 heat. This makes it do 100 DPS and generates 10 heat per second (HPS) resulting in a calculated 140 DPS with uncharged SAARE running at 50% efficiency. Charged SAARE will do about 126.675 DPS with this weapon at 25% efficiency.

 

B3-AR PPA:

This weapon can shoot 8 rounds a second for 12 damage and 4 heat. This makes it do 96 DPS and generates 32 HPS, resulting in a calculated 181.36 DPS with charged SAARE running at 80% efficiency. This puts the B3-AR PPA just above an Assault mech by only 5 total DPS instead of 25. (Making this weapon apply to the 36M in console versions will also make it a horrifying force to be reckoned with.)

 

B3-AR M4MA:

This weapon can shoot 5 rounds a second for 20 damage and 7.5 heat. This make it do 100 DPS and generates 37.5 HPS, resulting in a calculated 200.03125 DPS with charged SAARE running at 93.75% efficiency. This sets it as the absolute highest DPS, but I feel as if it is offset by the difficulty of the weapon use. It also makes the weapon a suppression force since it takes forever to hit its' target.

 

If possible, I'd like to tack another few things on, but if not possible, feel free to disregard these two ideas.

 

Incinerator Area of Heat Absorption:

The incinerator can absorb more heat than the technician can make with just the helix torch. we should have this reduced so the technician can't infinitely heal under an Incinerators effect maybe like 2 or 3 heat per second per mech.

Since the Helix torch makes about 5, the tech will still need to stop, but can still help.

 

Finally, If possible, it'd be cool if you could replace the Heat Dispersion ability with kind of a Powershot Ability. something that Triggers and eats all of the Incinerators heat in storage and super charges the SAARE and shoots a super ball that does about 90 damage and leaves a napalm flame effect that deals damage over time and heat over time based on the percentage of the Incinerators heat that was stored. Like a heat charge with damage.

[Murder_by_Spoon]

Well I like the technician thing. Inci-tech deathballs need to cease to exist.

Also, can I have a link to a weapons spreadsheet? :P

I used to have one but I lost it.

[GLYCH_04007]

Check "Hawken's Salty Stats" on google. That'll have every thing you're looking for.

[Morquedeas]

I'm confused how you get such high dps for momma, just looking at the stats sheet I see momma at 80 dps and charged saare at 106.7, and that would be ignoring heat issues.

 

Also when running papa, I might be confused, but shouldn't you have the saare at 100% efficiency and papa at like 80%?  When using them together, you're basically pausing the papa every 4 shots, while shooting the charged saare every time its off cd.  Hard to calculate dps for this though.  I'm also seeing papa at 13 damage/shot and 5.5 heat/shot, so one of us is off on the stats somewhere.

 

Aside from your questionable data, I agree that incin needs changes, although I don't know that simply changing weapon dps's would do the trick.

 

I am in favor of removing the heat leech passive, as it mostly just advocates tech deathballs.

 

The other issue with incin besides its top notch dps (which I'm pretty sure is with papa, not mama), is the fact that it can shoot indefinitely, this isn't such a big issue except in game modes where you need to hold the AA or something.  Incin can just suppress enemies without any drawbacks, in a objective  gamemode seeing him on the map at all times isn't as much of a caveat.

Edited by Morquedeas, 13 March 2017 - 10:25 AM.

[GLYCH_04007]

I'm confused how you get such high dps for momma, just looking at the stats sheet I see momma at 80 dps and charged saare at 106.7, and that would be ignoring heat issues.

Also when running papa, I might be confused, but shouldn't you have the saare at 100% efficiency and papa at like 80%? When using them together, you're basically pausing the papa every 4 shots, while shooting the charged saare every time its off cd. Hard to calculate dps for this though. I'm also seeing papa at 13 damage/shot and 5.5 heat/shot, so one of us is off on the stats somewhere.

Aside from your questionable data, I agree that incin needs changes, although I don't know that simply changing weapon dps's would do the trick.

I am in favor of removing the heat leech passive, as it mostly just advocates tech deathballs.

The other issue with incin besides its top notch dps (which I'm pretty sure is with papa, not mama), is the fact that it can shoot indefinitely, this isn't such a big issue except in game modes where you need to hold the AA or something. Incin can just suppress enemies without any drawbacks, in a objective gamemode seeing him on the map at all times isn't as much of a caveat.

The idea is to make the PPA a mid tier dps, short range style; M4MA the highest DPS, but harder to use; and the bby to be the "training wheels" but still have longer range than the PPA.

The numbers I've listed are proposed changes since everyone can access current statistics and figure the sustained DPS.

Reharding the infinite suppression problem, I proposed a general change to the game (lost in the forum somewhere). Adding regenerating ammo pools, mainly to make it so infite skirmishing isnt possible. For example, each mech gets an Ammo pool and a ammo refresh rate. So, the incin has a 300 ammo pool. It can shoot the PPA for 37 seconds before it is out of ammo. It then regenrates 3 ammo per second when not shooting. That means it'll have to wait 100 seconds for a full ammo pool. You can fire before you are back at 300, but the ammo regen stops.

Edited by GLYCH_04007, 17 March 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[Morquedeas]

The idea is to make the PPA a mid tier dps, short range style; M4MA the highest DPS, but harder to use; and the bby to be the "training wheels" but still have longer range than the PPA.

The numbers I've listed are proposed changes since everyone can access current statistics and figure the sustained DPS.

Reharding the infinite suppression problem, I proposed a general change to the game (lost in the forum somewhere). Adding regenerating ammo pools, mainly to make it so infite skirmishing isnt possible. For example, each mech gets an Ammo pool and a ammo refresh rate. So, the incin has a 300 ammo pool. It can shoot the PPA for 37 seconds before it is out of ammo. It then regenrates 3 ammo per second when not shooting. That means it'll have to wait 100 seconds for a full ammo pool. You can fire before you are back at 300, but the ammo regen stops.

Yeah so I just realized the numbers you posted were your SUGGESTIONS not calculations of what it actually is now.

 

Okay your thematic suggestions for each primary are more or less okay but I'm not sure about the specific numbers, I'd probably scale down both the papa and momma dps's, especially in the case of the momma which really isn't that bad, you have to consider that because it shoots exploding rounds it has effectively no damage dropoff over distance.

 

As for the ammo idea, I kinda like it but I'm opposed to trying to implement it.  It's too big of a change, and it probably have lasting and unforeseen impacts.  It would also be hard for the currently tiny dev team to implement.  I think we should look for an easier, quicker change that doesn't effect every mech, just to balance the incin.

 

I think first order of business should be to remove its passive, then nerf the papa dps or hps, these are easy changes that would help put incin in a good spot quickly without being too drastic of a change.  Then examine better ways to remove its ability to shoot indefinitely.

[GLYCH_04007]

I think first order of business should be to remove its passive, then nerf the papa dps or hps, these are easy changes that would help put incin in a good spot quickly without being too drastic of a change. Then examine better ways to remove its ability to shoot indefinitely.

I think a HPS nerf would do it well. Also putting the range tables how they were meant to be. The bby got the PPAs range and the PPA got the bbys range. The PPA should be a Shredder, close range gun; bby as an upgraded AR. Also buffing M4Mas HPS or ROF (to offset its horrid inaccuracy).

You can also test that in the current version of the game if you want to feel around numbers wise. Use the COOP BotDestruction and its stat modifiers, and nerf the incins heat gen. Really stupid idea, and only works for degradation. You cant increase a weapons heat gen with those.

Upon review, if possible, it might be good to buff the uncharged SAAREs projectile speed so the bby is useful again for ranged engagements.

Edited by GLYCH_04007, 17 March 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[Morquedeas]

Yeah I like the idea of the baby being the long range + accuracy option at the cost of dps, and the papa being the close range damage.  Mama should be somewhere in between.

 

Okay so I've been calculating the current dps's of each combination, right now I'm getting about 158 dps for baby+uncharged, 173 for mama+charged (just below vulcan+tow at 176 dps), and a rough estimate of papa would be somewhere between 190-200 dps.