10 replies to this topic

[Leghorn10314]

Just left a match where a reaper was over 300 points in the first 3 minutes when no one else had 50...and I wanted to say that  this kind of situation still needs to be addressed, or the game may suffer (remember that the player base had shrunk to a few groups of highly skilled/perhaps sometimes enhanced players that were clearly playing on an elevated level that the average player [e.g., me and many new players] did not stand a chance to find some fun in.) This game has two strong selling points - best movement algorithm I've ever used, and when sorted and filtered properly, the best game-balanced, live matches going. Not there yet, and this last game worried me that such radical and obvious skill differences (real or enhanced) still negatively impact the game experience; it certainly does for me. I'm just a journeyman and expect to die a lot, but I'm also a player with thousands of hours of Hawken play, and if it acts like a duck and shoots like a duck then it just might not be an unaided-human-mech after all. The honor system did not usually work in the last incarnation (indeed once I was challenged with "everyone hacks dude, *** off"), and no reason to assume it will suddenly reverse.

I hope that keeping the playing field as level as possible will continue to be the highest priority. The other aspects of the game have all received improvements including this new system of challenges, which is a very cool idea. I'm all-in on keeping it fair and level and fun.

 

Perhaps this should be rolled into the conversation about re-balancing ongoing matches, where the incoming player is usually going on the losing side, where multiple leaves make re-balancing hard, or in-coming groups, etc., all shake the balance.

With all this focus on MMR, to me a ranking system cries out for a handicapping system somewhat like golf, where Joe Average can beat the pro on any given day. A 'handicap' could take so many forms, I'll leave it alone. It would be easy to test for an evening to simply see what happens. Anyway, overall the many changes you've made both obvious and subtle have been impressive, please keep an eye out for obvious departures from the curve; in large groups, most all behaviors are predictable, so the unsual/unexpected is easy to spot. Best of luck.

[Leghorn10314]

As I remember it, before the first dev team left and before they made the last major tweak there was a large enough player base that MOST GAMES ended with less than a 10 point kill difference, the majority of players had 100-200 points, and NO ONE LEFT at the end! We would play, same 10-12 guys, TDM for hours. Mostly always close games, always really fun games . MMR was tightly locked down then, so that you really were playing with guys like you. Then the base shrank, they tweaked all the dodge times and other stuff, finished the hotwings and basically left the light on. At some point I think someone opened up MMR wide open; It pretty much stayed like that and I'm left wondering where/how MMR is currently applied ; I can see keeping it wide open to let as many in at once as possible without waiting, how that impacts the game experience is another thing. I'm hoping for an inspiring solution!

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I don't cheat, and I get hackused continuously. There are better players than me who play pubs.

IMO, the ribbon system dividing all bronze using quickmatch is doing a great job of keeping newbs separate from pros.

That breaks down for grandfathered newbs given silver gold Platinum, or users of the server browser.

The ribbon system is a grind, and keeps newbs isolated for weeks. Once they break silver it's in the pool with the sharks.

[angryhampster]

i used to t hink that way. until i sucked it up and grinded  a few years of my life to this game....

 

 

years....

 

if there are 11 equal players in a pub match, and the 12th person is slightly faster and better,  his team will always win, 100% of the time. 

 

the top player trumps the game. 

Edited by angryhampster, 07 June 2017 - 07:44 AM.

[Arkhaun]

The ribbon system is a grind, and keeps newbs isolated for weeks. Once they break silver it's in the pool with the sharks.

 

MINNOWS!, CROSS MY SEA!

[TheButtSatisfier]

(stuff)

 

If the goal of your post was to inspire action on someone's part (the devs or the community), then you'd be better served making your points as succinctly as possible. Otherwise, you'll lose your reader as they try to hang on through the prose and multiple subject jumps. It begs the question, "What am I supposed to get out of reading this?" Think of it like typing up a resume. You want your reader engaged for the entire 30 seconds they're going to devote to you out of their day. If you lose them in the first 5 seconds, then you probably won't inspire the action you want.

 

Let's cut it down like this:

 

Just left a match where a reaper was over 300 points in the first 3 minutes when no one else had 50...and I wanted to say that  this kind of situation still needs to be addressed, or the game may suffer (remember that the player base had shrunk to a few groups of highly skilled/perhaps sometimes enhanced players that were clearly playing on an elevated level that the average player [e.g., me and many new players] did not stand a chance to find some fun in.) This game has two strong selling points - best movement algorithm I've ever used, and when sorted and filtered properly, the best game-balanced, live matches going. Not there yet, and this last game worried me that such radical and obvious skill differences (real or enhanced) still negatively impact the game experience; it certainly does for me.  Lobbies are too unbalanced, and I'm concerned with the impact it's having on the community. I'm just a journeyman and expect to die a lot, but I'm also a player with thousands of hours of Hawken play, and if it acts like a duck and shoots like a duck then it just might not be an unaided-human-mech after all. The honor system did not usually work in the last incarnation (indeed once I was challenged with "everyone hacks dude, *** off"), and no reason to assume it will suddenly reverse. I also share the same concern with our community in regards to hacking.

I hope that keeping the playing field as level as possible will continue to be the highest priority. The other aspects of the game have all received improvements including this new system of challenges, which is a very cool idea. I'm all-in on keeping it fair and level and fun.

 

Perhaps this should be rolled into the conversation about re-balancing ongoing matches, where the incoming player is usually going on the losing side, where multiple leaves make re-balancing hard, or in-coming groups, etc., all shake the balance. To address imbalanced matches, please see (the thread you mentioned).

With all this focus on MMR, to me a ranking system cries out for a handicapping system somewhat like golf, where Joe Average can beat the pro on any given day. A 'handicap' could take so many forms, I'll leave it alone. It would be easy to test for an evening to simply see what happens.  Anyway, overall the many changes you've made both obvious and subtle have been impressive, please keep an eye out for obvious departures from the curve; in large groups, most all behaviors are predictable, so the unsual/unexpected is easy to spot. You may also consider a handicap system to address the imbalance I see in matches, but please make sure that your decisions are backed up with meaningful data. Best of luck.

 

 

As I remember it, before the first dev team left and before they made the last major tweak there was a large enough player base that MOST GAMES ended with less than a 10 point kill difference, the majority of players had 100-200 points, and NO ONE LEFT at the end!  We would play, same 10-12 guys, TDM for hours. Mostly always close games, always really fun games . MMR was tightly locked down then, so that you really were playing with guys like you. Then the base shrank, they tweaked all the dodge times and other stuff, finished the hotwings and basically left the light on. At some point I think someone opened up MMR wide open; It pretty much stayed like that and I'm left wondering where/how MMR is currently applied ; I can see keeping it wide open to let as many in at once as possible without waiting, how that impacts the game experience is another thing. When this game was popular, things were better. I I'm hoping for an inspiring solution! Make things better.

 

In general, I agree with all the points you made except for handicapping players because they are too good. I can't think of a single widely-played competitive game that regularly introduces handicaps to compensate for skill differences, and I don't think that the devs should devote resources to a handicapping system when there's many other more reliable methods of balancing matches that can be explored first.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 07 June 2017 - 01:14 PM.

[ReversusRex]

Butt, are you an english professor?

[Pumapaw]

He's right keep it short and sweet!

Edited by Pumapaw, 07 June 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[DieselCat]

I read the entire post 

[dorobo]

I read the entire post 

[ICERAY2000]

Dear Buttsatisfier (creeps me out to even type that)

 

Sorry you lost that editing job; really hope you get another one soon.

 

I liked the long post, it used real words and good grammar and explained it well.

 

Pls don't edit me.