22 replies to this topic

[Rchive]

I listened to a developer commentary for Team Fortress 2 one time talking about making the visuals of the different classes as distinguishable from each other as possible. It was really interesting, but I also think it's something HAWKEN could use a bit more of. I often find it hard to tell what mech class I am up against in the middle of a fight, and that information is important since different classes are likely to behave in different ways in a given situation. This problem is amplified by the ability to customize your mech with the parts from other mech classes. Is there a way that we can better visually distinguish mech classes while preserving the customizability that's become a staple of mech games? Maybe having body parts that aren't just from other classes? Maybe not allowing customizing of the "upper" body part so that stays tied to what class you're using (since it's by far the most noticeable)?

P.S. I know that there's the little ability icon above an enemy's head next to their name, but that doesn't really jump out at you like the difference between, for example, the Heavy and the Medic from Team Fortress 2. Also, the Assault and Recruit have the same icon as far as I can tell, so that can't help you distinguish the two.


Also, I know this might not be a high priority issue, but I'm interested in thoughts, nonetheless.

[Beemann]

I and many others have been saying the same thing for a long time. Keeping consistency to the silhouettes of each mech would go a long way in helping new players learn about the game and how it works while also keeping things visually consistent. More pronounced design variants would also potentially lead to a few new looks/styles that could then be explained in the lore and be used as an excuse to pump more backstory into the game

 

Honestly I think if you're going to have "Classes" you should go all out on that.

[HorseHeadProphet]

You can tell by the mech's weapons, or just look at the scoreboard. Hit tab key in game to see the scoreboard.

[Beemann]

You can tell by the mech's weapons, or just look at the scoreboard. Hit tab key in game to see the scoreboard.

We played a game on the forums with the first one where AJK posted screenshots of mechs at varying distances. Nobody guessed right (one person was close)

The second one implies you're going to check after every spawn or that people are always going to play the same mechs. It's still better design to have visual consistency

[Rchive]

Yeah, I do often check the scoreboard, but that's to know what mechs are out on the field, not which one is currently 100 feet in front of me hitting me with... something...

About going all out on "classes", I think HAWKEN is at an awkward middle ground between classes and classless customization on both visuals and gameplay. The classes don't really feel all that different to me other than weight class, ability, and weapon pool. Basically, it seems like HAWKEN should pick one or the other: classes with defined roles and looks that are actually different, or a classless system where you select a frame, basic primary, special secondary, ability, items, internals, visuals, etc. Being somewhere in the middle is just confusing.

[Silverfire]

I've played long enough to react to certain mechs at certain ranges, or just mechs in general in certain ranges. More importantly, I identify what weapons are coming towards me. That narrows the pool up significantly.

Hellfires? Bruiser or Rocketeer, get into cover, they're mid long range support type.

Little cigar shaped explosives? RevGL Grenadier.

Bullet tracers that linger in the air and half your health disappeared? Sharpshooter or Reaper.

Quick brief bullet tracers? A sustained mech, there are a bunch of those...

Loud audible THWANG? Probably a flak style weapon, Brawlers, Scouts, Raiders. Close range.

Sudden small explosions on the ground? HEAT cannon.

And so on and so forth.

Learning what weapons are what by sounds and what hits you, and understanding how they work will improve your mech identification skills. It's not as important what specific mech is coming at you, but more so important to identify what weapons are coming at you. You can then analyze it, get into the appropriate cover and react appropriately.

Also understanding, in a situation, what mechs will be in certain combat scenarios. If you see a mech with a SS chassis in close quarters, it's either a damn good SS or a mech with a different chassis. If you see a mech with a Fred chassis in long range, it's most likely a SS because a regular Fred would do peashooter damage to you at long range. No need to worry there.

So I'd say learn which chassis go on which mech by default, learn your weapon identification, and learn your combat situations. That should help with IDing mechs you may not know at first glance. I know it's learning, but hey, if I can do it, I'm sure you can too. Good luck.

Edited by Silverfire, 03 April 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[Skrill]

This has already been addressed with the addition of ability icons next to players names denoting class.

[Derpy Hooves]

If you can't tell what class they are given the ability icon beside player names, and the very obvious size differences, then no offense pal, but you need to get your eyes checked. Theres loads of differences between them all, it just takes getting to know each one to identify on sight.

 

Small and fast? A class

Small fast, and with a sticky beam? That's a Tech (kill it with fire)

Small fast and can dissappear? That's an infil

Small and floating around like a clown in the sky? thats a zerker

Small and incredible fast on the ground? thats a scout

Small and not moving much? That's a reaper

 

Every class has defining traits about them, you can't play 10 matches then say need moar visual differences. Games require you to learn things as you play them, play a few hundred matches then question yourself about mech classes. Bet your opinion will change once you learn.

 

P.S. You can't take TF2 into comparison here, TF2 has a single model for every class and unless your a premium member, 99% of them all look identical to one another. it's only till you take premium members into account that they start to look different from one another.

[GMKGoat]

Outside of Type Cs, every mech has a pretty solid silhouette. I don't know who thought making every Type C look nearly identical was a good idea. True, the issue does come up when players customize their mechs, but I've found that it's a rare enough occurrence that anyone bothers to waste that kind of money making their Assault look like a Pred for instance. At incredibly long ranges, if you can see the mech you can see the ability icon. At that point the only confusion comes from Recruit/Assault since they have the exact same ability. While I understand where you're coming from, I think the art design team did a pretty good job giving each of the base mech designs recognizable silhouettes (again, barring Type Cs).

[Derpy Hooves]

Outside of Type Cs, every mech has a pretty solid silhouette. I don't know who thought making every Type C look nearly identical was a good idea. True, the issue does come up when players customize their mechs, but I've found that it's a rare enough occurrence that anyone bothers to waste that kind of money making their Assault look like a Pred for instance. At incredibly long ranges, if you can see the mech you can see the ability icon. At that point the only confusion comes from Recruit/Assault since they have the exact same ability. While I understand where you're coming from, I think the art design team did a pretty good job giving each of the base mech designs recognizable silhouettes (again, barring Type Cs).

Tbh the brawler looks like it's squatting to take a fuzzy bunny. lol

[Kopra]

At long distances you can't see the name/icon, while you could recognize a default Sharpshooter's silhouette, which might make someone avoid a Raider disguised as a Sharpshooter. Does it make that much of a difference in the long run? Not really, but it's just shoddy design.

[Rchive]

you can't play 10 matches then say need moar visual differences. Games require you to learn things as you play them, play a few hundred matches then question yourself about mech classes. Bet your opinion will change once you learn.

 

I have played a couple hundred matches. I'm a noob to the forums, but not the game. (Not compared to 10 matches, at least. I still feel like a bit of a noob even with a couple hundred.)

I guess I'm more concerned about the customization than the visual differences on the regular models (though I would like to see some improvement there). Imagine if in a game like League of Legends the different skins for champions were just the model from some other champion. Even if only 1 in every 100 players actually bought those skins, you'd still have to wonder every time you come across another player, "Is that champion actually the champion it looks like, or is it a different one with a skin?" And the player shouldn't have to ask questions like that.

[JackVandal]

i actually like the level of customization the game has, it adds a layer of thought to picking a target.

[Panzermanathod]

Well, I'm fine with the customization levels... Although for someone who played Armored Core this is a step down, haha. Closer to Front Mission, really.

[Derpy Hooves]

I have played a couple hundred matches. I'm a noob to the forums, but not the game. (Not compared to 10 matches, at least. I still feel like a bit of a noob even with a couple hundred.)

I guess I'm more concerned about the customization than the visual differences on the regular models (though I would like to see some improvement there). Imagine if in a game like League of Legends the different skins for champions were just the model from some other champion. Even if only 1 in every 100 players actually bought those skins, you'd still have to wonder every time you come across another player, "Is that champion actually the champion it looks like, or is it a different one with a skin?" And the player shouldn't have to ask questions like that.

Customization doesn't change the ability icon.

gas pump = scout

angry fist = zerker

crosshairs = reaper

medic cross = tech

lined octagon = infil

double cheveron = raider

thermostat = CR-T/Assault

large rifle round = sharpshooter

double shield = bruiser

thermostat with a 2 = G2 assault

lined hexagon with little eyes inside = pred

paludroned medic cross = brawler

paludroned triple right chevron = vanguard

fireball = Incin

explosion = grenadier

paludroned crosshair = rocketeer

 

Watch the signs and you'll know your enemy, regardless of what he/she looks like. That's exactly why they were created in the first place.

double chevron with a 2 = G2 raider

[Teljaxx the Unintentional]

Ah, here we go again...

 

I like being able to swap chassis parts between mechs, because there are some chassis that I do not like on mechs that I do like, and vice versa. So this way I can take the ugly metal butt that is the Grenadier torso, an swap it for the awesome Bunker Yakuza torso. I do not care about trying to disguise my mechs, and I actually usually leave the torso as the default, and only change the arms or legs.

 

And even without the chassis to look at, there are still plenty of ways to identify what mechs are around you. You can:

1. Look at their ability icon.
2. Listen for what weapons are being used nearby.
3. See what projectiles or tracers are flying around.
4. See what guns your opponent has equipped.
5. See what weight class your opponent is.
6. Check the scoreboard.
7. Pay attention to their tactics.

None of these individually are 100% guaranteed to identify what you are up against, but with all of them together you should have no trouble identifying your foes. And even fighting against someone with a disguised mech, as soon as they open fire you can usually tell something is up. And as soon as they kill you, you will know the truth for sure. So if anything, they should really only be able to get one kill out of their deception. Unless they have an entire hangar of disguised mechs that they constantly cycle through or something. But how common do you thing that is going to be?

 

Also, AJK and Beemann, you should do your weapon identification screenshot test again. Since your evidence was lost with the old forums, we just have to take your word for it right now.

[Scow2]

I never have a problem recognizing mechs, as long as they're default skins.

All the A-class mechs are extremely visually distinct - The berzerker has the wedge-shaped cockpit and narrow guns. The Scout looks like a fly, bigger in front than back due to the fuel tank. The Reaper has that rounded front. The Technician is a walking trashcan. The Infiltrator either looks like a faint blur, or flaming pile of scrap.

 

The B-class mechs have a bit less visual differentiation... but the Sharpshooter and Predator look small, with the Sharpshooter differentiated thanks to its concave wedge cockpit. The Recruit is a walking CRT, and the Elite looks like an Imperial Probe Droid. The non-elite Assault, Raider, and Bruisers can sometimes be difficult to differentiate from behind or the side, but at other angles, the Bruiser is clearly a walking Millennium Falcon, and the Raider's boxiness distinguishes it.

 

The heavy mechs aren't quite as easy to differentiate, except the distinctively-plated Rocketeer and blue-painted Incinerator - but who cares? They're all big scary vulcan-and-explosive spewing tanks that you have to shoot in the butt, and you can almost always see the icon, or things that differentiate it from others that engage in similar ranges.

Edited by Scow2, 05 April 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

I never have a problem recognizing mechs, as long as they're default skins.

I think that's the problem.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I will always, ALWAYS be of the opinion that specific silhouettes for specific classes is the most elegant, most intuitive solutions to this problem. And while people may complain about customization, there's multiple games that have made large amounts of customization and recognizable silhouettes go hand in hand.

 

But Hawken is well past that point. So the icons serve their purpose well enough (once you learn to recognize the more arbitrary icons), even if they are a crude, dumb solution.

[Scow2]

I think that's the problem.

Eh... I've not seen enough off-model mechs to see it as a problem. Most stick with the default skin, the elite skin, or the vanity skin appropriate to their mech.

[Superkamikazee]

Eh... I've not seen enough off-model mechs to see it as a problem. Most stick with the default skin, the elite skin, or the vanity skin appropriate to their mech.

 

I saw a CRT predator 2 days ago. Threw me for a loop. 

[RespawningJesus]

I thought the ability icon was what gave players an idea of what mechs were being used. I could have sworn that icon appears next to their health. If it doesnt, then I guess it could help.

[LaurenEmily]

I thought the ability icon was what gave players an idea of what mechs were being used. I could have sworn that icon appears next to their health. If it doesnt, then I guess it could help.

That icon indeed appears there and it's so big i don't know how one can miss it. It even lights up when that mech is using it's ability.