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[Scow2]

I thought of a few mech design ideas that I decided to kick around designed to break/change the Hawken metagame - one's a new mech idea that plays fundamentally differently in many regards from regular mechs, the rest dilute and explore themes added by the Technician and Incinerator, and one's a silly joke I couldn't resist after seeing the pic.
G2 Bruiser

Spoiler

 
this mech idea is actually a refinement of a mech idea I had over in the Skillfires thread, for a mech that requires NO precision aiming, but otherwise requires sophisticated handling and knowledge of how to play it. I decided to hijack the Bruiser name/chassis to make it work, since it hit a lot of the points the thought-experiment wanted.
 
Anyway:
Primary weapon:
Radial Oscillating Field Laser- This is the big gimmick of the mech. Visually, it's an orb with an emmitter on the left side of the mech. It requires no aiming whatsoever: When fired, it automatically locks onto the nearest enemy mech, drone, projectile, destroyable deployable item, etc that isn't blocked by the mech's own body, and begins damaging it with a visibile red beam. However, the weapon's DPS is absolutely atrocious for a primary sustain weapon (Possibly slightly above an MG turret's). However... it has several other functions. On its own, it deals significantly greater damage against enemies that obstruct it. It deals self-damage for a split second before shutting off if the target mech dashes or dodges past (Or a projectile manages to fly past) the G2 Bruiser's right side (Forcing the beam to cut through its own mech!). The laser is actually two lasers - the visible red damaging one, and an almost-invisible, narrow green one (Compeletly consumed by the red) used for targetting and does no damage and generates no heat... but it's still used when boosting and dodging.
 
Secondary Weapon: Hellfire GX. The GX hellfire missile pod shoots more missiles than the original hellfires, but they're individually weaker, and the tracking gets looser with each missile fired in the salvo.
However, the primary weapon also interacts with the secondary - If the laser and missile-lock are the same target, the missiles DON'T have their tracking decay during a salvo. However, if they're not the same target, then the missile tracking starts sloppier, and gets sloppier faster. If you try dumb-firing the missiles while also using the laser, you end up with 'drunk' unguided missiles flying everywhere.
 
Special Ability: Retroflective Targeting Shield (RTS/"Return To Sender) - Taking the original Brawler's shield, and completely changing it. Upon activation, the mech generates a spherical field around itself that reflects all projectiles back the way they came: Hitscan weapons deal their damage to their user for the duration, dumbfire and arcing projectiles are immediately and completely reversed, homing projectiles (Such as the Seeker and Hellfires) reverse and lock onto their launcher, and air-detonating projectiles detonate once they reach their starting point. Of course... if you're using the laser when the ability's activated, all incoming fire is redirected to that poor sap instead of reversed: Warning - if they need to travel through space the G2 Bruiser occupies to hit that target, they will try to do so. This has a very adverse effect on the bruiser's performance.
 
As for stats compared to a regular Bruiser - it would probably be a more fragile mech. But this is best for people who actually know more about fine-tuning.
 
I figure this mech would be an interesting, highly-controversial addition to the game, because it foregoes classic 'aiming' in exchange for a unique emphasis on movement, timing, and positioning.

 
 
Other suggestions - Breaking up the controversy around the Incinerator and Technician by diluting them!
 
First off - two Incinerator variants! An A-class, and a B-class.
 
Firebat

Spoiler

A support/harrassment Flame-based mech, designed to quickly maneuver around the battlefield ensnaring and otherwise intefering with the operation of other mechs. It shares the incinerator's Heat absorb passive ability.
Primary weapon:T3 Flamethrower - A short-range weapon that deals modest short-range sustained damage to armor and fuel, while also increasing heat in the target mech. (The "T3" means "Triple Threat" - Heat, Fuel, and Health)
Alternate: Heat Gun, because reasons.
Prestige: One of the Incinerator's primary weapons.
Secondary: SAARE Launcher, as Incinerator.
Ability: Smokescreen - It obscures visibility (More opaque for enemies than allies) in a large area centered on the mech for a few seconds, and enemy mechs within also do not dissipate heat normally (The Assault/CRT ability and incinerators/infernos/firebats heat absorb still function)

 
Inferno

Spoiler

The B-class heat-based mech. I don't have any ideas, but I think there should be one.

 
 
And now, the Bulwark - a C-class version of the Technician.

Spoiler

C-class Heavy Mech
Armor: Lower end of C-Class. Its healing and defensive abilities more than make up for it.
Speed: Middle of C-class - it needs to be able to keep up with the team.
Maneuverability: Lower than Brawler
Weapons: 
Assault Rifle (Primary)
Seeker (Alternate)
Rev-GL (Prestige)
Secondary:
Ability: Bulwark Shield (Symbol - Pauldrons around a Shield). The Shield gives 30% damage resistance to attacks from the front (20% bonus damage to shots in the butt). Visually, when it's engaged, it also glows with those cool colorful screens (Making it instantly recognizable on the battlefield) and protects all nearby friendly mechs (Similar radius to Incinerator's heat siphon) with 20% damage resistance to attacks from the direction the Bulwark is facing.
 
Miscellaneous thoughts: One of the technician's balance points is its low health... which the Bulwark does NOT share - though it's fragile compared to many C-classes, it's still a C-class. Unlike the technician, though, the Bulwark lacks the technician's "Green Beam" burst-healing, and should probably also have lower heat, making it also worse at sustained healing.

 
Of course, the Incinerator/Technician combo needs to be patched out before anyone can even THINK of implementing something like the Bulwark.
 
 
And, as a joke inspired by an awesome picture

Spoiler

H-Class mech - Sustained Burst Battlefield Domination.
Armor: 2500
Speed: 15
Fuel Tank: [Stupidly Large]
Fuel Consumption and recharge rate: [Comically fast - ultimately about half a Brawler's]
Primary Weapon: The SA Hawkins Flak Vulcan array. Fire rate of the Vulcan, spread of the Flak, and damage and range falloff of the SA Hawkins.
Secondary Weapon: Hellfire TOWs. Alternate fire mode depends on if you've launched the missiles or not - if you haven't, it locks onto up to four visible enemy mechs. If you have, it airbursts them (Clicking the fire again also airbursts them). It shoots as many missiles as a Hellfire launcher, but each one has the damage and splash of a TOW.
Special Ability: R.E.K.T. - The mech loses all current heat. For the next 10 seconds none of its weapons build heat (And will not overheat if an external source of heat's applied, such as an incinerator's M4M4 or aforesuggested Inferno's T3.), and the Hellfire TOW's refire rate increases to practically constant (And it will keep firing/won't airburst if you just hold the trigger)
 
This mech CANNOT be bought with Meteor Credits. Instead, it must be bought with HC, and only after acquiring all of the following:
A Rank 6 CR-T Recruit with at least a 1.0 K/D Ratio
Any four Rank 5 A-Class mechs
Any four Rank 5 B-Class Mechs (In addition to the recruit)
Any four Rank 5 C-Class Mechs
 
Sometimes, it will show up in Test Drive.

 
Okay. I'm tired, my brain's not working. Discuss?

Edited by Scow2, 08 April 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[Miscellaneous]

Spoiler = failure, lol

 

Might want to just put "G2 Bruiser[spoiler]"

[petracles]

I'd be interested to see this game's art style and mechanics work with Rail Guns, Laser Rifles, and Flamethrowers. I think they'd be SO fkn cool, but that's just cause I like kinetic rounds, lasers, and fire!

 

But yeah, new primaries and secondaries are more valuable to me, personally, than getting another mech with its own unique weapons.

[(P:B)Augmentia]

I personally think the G2 Bruiser concept you have is pretty OP. Does the damage from RTS-ed fire get cut by a certain percentage? Because if not you could get instant kills against things such as the scout. You could literally walk into a fight in a narrow hallway/room with a shield and no weapons and reflect every single shot the entire enemy team shoots at you and send it right back. It would be devastating. I love the idea of all that destruction, but it just seems like a bad idea overall, even without a damage reduction on reflected shots. It is akin to the Smart Pistol MK-1 in Titanfall. Everyone would hate it except for the people who use it. Hawken itself is a skill based game in its entirety, so a quickshoot mech like the G2 Bruiser is something I can't really see added, as it is against the purpose of the game thus far.

 

The firebat, however, sounds pretty good. While I might not support that it has the incinerator's passive, the idea of another mech like the predator is absolutely delicious. The smokescreen doesnt really make sense though. It would have to be a heat mirage if you have excess heat to give off or an after-image. That would be freaking cool. A mech that has an after-image ability and is hella fast would be completely awesome. It would be just slower than scout, but devastating with its firepower. I like this idea.

 

Not a big fan of the Bulwark.

 

Awesome ideas. I'm out.

[Sp3ctrr]

This ranks lower than Nukeitfromorbit D class.

 

or the scout with four flaks.

[Bad_BennyAK]

Firebat sounds the best idea of all.  I like the flamethrower idea!!   Others sound... a bit .... experimental.     i DO like your thought for new weapons.   

 

 

That thread gave me one GOOD idea for a weapon,  a tesla coil gun,  that shoots lightning,  either bolts  a la sniper shots with no aim,  or sustained lightning, that requires some degree of aiming accuracy to keep the "beam"  or "bolt"  connected on target.  moderate to medium range at the most.   One bad side affect:   While it can do reasonable damage,  if other enemy OR friendly mechs are nearby within a close proximity, the lightning continues past target mech, doing light damage to close enemies,  very light damage to FRIENDLY mechs!!!  ( similar to friendly explosion damage)  Any thoughts on that?

[Scow2]

I personally think the G2 Bruiser concept you have is pretty OP. Does the damage from RTS-ed fire get cut by a certain percentage? Because if not you could get instant kills against things such as the scout. You could literally walk into a fight in a narrow hallway/room with a shield and no weapons and reflect every single shot the entire enemy team shoots at you and send it right back. It would be devastating. I love the idea of all that destruction, but it just seems like a bad idea overall, even without a damage reduction on reflected shots. It is akin to the Smart Pistol MK-1 in Titanfall. Everyone would hate it except for the people who use it. Hawken itself is a skill based game in its entirety, so a quickshoot mech like the G2 Bruiser is something I can't really see added, as it is against the purpose of the game thus far.

I figure if an enemy team wrecks itself against the G2 Bruiser's RTS, it's their own damn fault - it's not like there isn't a highly-visible icon on the mech saying "I can reflect your shots". However... there should probably be a .5-1 second delay between the shot being blocked by the shield and then reflected, increasing the window for those who get RTSed to say "Oh Little Puppydog!" and get the hell out of the way of their returned payload. But, doing that for the non-hitscan weapons might make the window TOO big, lowering the mech's skill ceiling.

I don't think it's against the purpose of the game, but it IS a controversial re-interpretation about the game. Movement, positioning, and timing are king with the mech - the skills I see HAWKEN veterans saying are king. I'm not sure what you mean by 'quickshoot', though.

The one largely unintended side effect of the G2 bruiser is that it's something of a hard counter to Infiltrators, Predators, and, if well played, Rocketeers(That laser shoots down missiles stupidly well). And, if used at the beginning of the match, gives a clear "The Enemies are Thataway!", unless the laser is restricted to Radar range for target acquisition. I'm not sure if the "Laser Pointer" aspect is a good or bad thing, though... it gives the otherwise-hard-to-use mech unique strategic value.

I figure with all the crying about the Predator, Rocketeer(Hellfires!), Technician, and Incinerator, increasing the actual diversity in mech design could help fix perceptions that lead to arguments of "X Mech is against Hawken's Design Philosophy!"

The idea of the Bulwark is that, by adding another healing mech, it reinforces the notion that direct support roles are here to stay. Saying one mech that does something new is against the spirit of the game is easy. It's harder when half the mechs available are 'against the spirit' of the game - the technician stops being an exotic Outlier in game design. Of course, more mech designs with an alternate take on repair/rejuvenation secondaries are also

Hmm... now I'm thinking of a "Tanker" mech that has strong interaction with fuel. However... I really miss how devalued Fuel was by the change to dodging.

I'm kinda curious where you got the idea that the Firebat was similar to the Predator (The heat passive really could go, though). As far as I can tell, the Predator is a mech that lurks around the outside of the battlefield, and bursting those that make mistakes. The Firebat's a quick mech that's supposed to get into the middle of the enemies and directly assault their performance more than damage their health (Though it can do that too) by robbing them of fuel for flying/boosting, heat for shooting, terrain for maneuvering, and visibility (Thanks to the Flamethrower and Smokescreen) for targeting.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Smokescreen doesn't make sense". It fills the area around the mech with mostly-opaque smoke that obscures icons and terrain, and is transparentto allies, and doesn't allow heat to regenerate. Anyone caught in it should probably evacuate the area.

Firebat sounds the best idea of all.  I like the flamethrower idea!!   Others sound... a bit .... experimental.     i DO like your thought for new weapons.

They're all experimental, which is kinda the point. Except the CRT Veteran.

 

That thread gave me one GOOD idea for a weapon,  a tesla coil gun,  that shoots lightning,  either bolts  a la sniper shots with no aim,  or sustained lightning, that requires some degree of aiming accuracy to keep the "beam"  or "bolt"  connected on target.  moderate to medium range at the most.   One bad side affect:   While it can do reasonable damage,  if other enemy OR friendly mechs are nearby within a close proximity, the lightning continues past target mech, doing light damage to close enemies,  very light damage to FRIENDLY mechs!!!  ( similar to friendly explosion damage)  Any thoughts on that?

I am against anything that can be used to grief the player's team. I'd expect the sustained blasting to be able to track its target once it hits, but once hit 'stick', allowing it to be used for a variety of skillshots that take advantage of not needing to keep an enemy directly in the crosshairs.

And... honestly, I think the secondary arcs should do just as much damage as the initial blast (With the drawback being it requires a primary target, and other enemies to be around it). The 'chain' effect is nice for breaking up clusters of enemies (Making it an effective counter to Technicians, Incinerators, and my Bulwark suggestion)

Edited by Scow2, 08 April 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[(P:B)Augmentia]

One thing we definately need more of is items. That would probably speed along the creative process.