46 replies to this topic

[Man_Eating_Boar]

Or should you earn said items through random drops, awarded via acheivements or Awarded via performance.

[NAVY MARCOM]

it would make the game more interesting to have items, awarded based on both skill level and funds. nothing serious like the imbalances you get in MW2 or BO. But items like upgraded Hulls, sensors, load outs. In real life, if my weapon has 30 rounds in a clip and it takes me 8sec to change it to the next clip, the guy with the 100 round dual drum has my ass owned for over 30 sec in reload and re-acquisition time for the same amount of ammo usage. That's the kind of upgrade that is not a game killer but gives the more advanced player more options and better kit.  On deployment you know who the first timers are and who the vets are, the ability to order 3rd party tools and kit allows each solider to use the main tools like the molle but broadens the options for when they do go out into the field.  

So if you think along those lines then ou can come up with some interesting upgrades that the advanced player, having more experience can use to customize and built a more personalized Mecha.

[HardBaller]

IF they were to put something like this in the system....

Hmmm.. i'd have to say that i prefer te way assassins creed: brotherhood multiplayer does it.

They have a lvl lader system and not a "point shop". And you don't get like a rocket launcher right away as a low lvl. The higher the level you achieve (and the higher the level get the more xp you have to get the harder it becomes) you need better and better skills.

It's also so that they give good awards at the lower lvls but things that help you get better in what you have to do like smoke bombs and temp disguise so you can create better oppertunities for yourself. Wile at the higher levels when you (usually you also have those nooby xp farmers that can't do jack sh*t but still lvl up. can't help that unfortunately) you get things like a hidden pistol or poison gas. And it's not all Action. You also get streak bonuses depending on the lvl you have that you can put in your chars profile. But you get to put 1 in so you have to choose. And no stupid rc driven bombs lmao. but something like an added focus that reduces recoil with 5% until you are killed or end of round after a 3 killstreak for example.

Or when you reach lvl 5 you can to change the base colors of the mech. That kinda stuff. devide it over the lvl appropreate like they did. I think that's the best way to make it. Also makes what you can do really depending on your skills and not if you can get just enough points as a newbie to buy that one beast of a weapons and screw around the rest of the playing time making the game less fun for other players who are really playing for fun and skill.

my 2 cents.

[JackDandy]

Pretty sure they said all equipment is available from the beginning.

[colR]

It'd be a bit unusual, but what about a game mode restricting the choice of equipment available to higher level players_ So if you're really good at the game, you know the maps like the back of your hand and you can pick a fly out of the air from 2 city blocks away then you're limited to the most basic kit, by way of handicap, while the nub who's never played before can pick heat-seeking mini-nukes and hyper-velocity gauss guns. Might make for interesting contests.

(And before anyone points it out, I freely admit I nicked this idea from Yahtzee's levelling backwards post a few weeks ago. If you're going to steal ideas, steal the good ones, that's what I say.)

[HardBaller]

ColOfNature said:

It'd be a bit unusual, but what about a game mode restricting the choice of equipment available to higher level players_ So if you're really good at the game, you know the maps like the back of your hand and you can pick a fly out of the air from 2 city blocks away then you're limited to the most basic kit, by way of handicap, while the nub who's never played before can pick heat-seeking mini-nukes and hyper-velocity gauss guns. Might make for interesting contests.

(And before anyone points it out, I freely admit I nicked this idea from Yahtzee's levelling backwards post a few weeks ago. If you're going to steal ideas, steal the good ones, that's what I say.)

You know. I actually do like this idea aswel. Especially if they aren't going to make the mp so that matchmaking doesn't look at a players lvl. Kinda like having a hardcore mode that you can't turn of if you have X amount of exp or K/D ratio but is turned of when you are matched against other equal players.

Missed that post but might look for it now. Great idea.

[Dahdah]

Anyone here who played Chromehounds remembers the currency based system it ran. All equipment was availible to anyone, but you had to 'buy' the different weapons/armor/chassis/etc. The more you 'won' on the battlefield, the more cred you built up and the more equipment you could buy. The balance for vets trouncing noobs was the squad system; in-squad, vets could trade/give equipment and/or full builds to the lesser experienced players.

The overall effect was a game where the equipment was secondary to the players' skill, while still allowing a WIDE variety of customization without imbalance.

[NAVY MARCOM]

setting it up so that if a player at lvl 10 KO's a player at lvl 3 they get no points kill a lvl 1 and get points taken off for being a big baby..  however manage to kill a lvl 10 and our a lvl 3 will garner you some big coinage..

that would be a good way to setup the credit system, but you still need to balance out what's received when you make a purchase.. I still say that making credit the reward/penalty system is good, but making sure that by lvl 20 or whatever your not able to purchase a dark matter weapon that rips reality apart and causes an instant blackhole where ever it hits is important. I lie the idea of getting access to load out options that will enhance our weapons, mecha in terms of body cammo and performance ( removing boost jets and replacing with a faster turret rotation if your not a jumper type player).. tools that you can use as you get better with yoru character/mecha and can fine tune with . of course I also think that having access to say a the mecha version of a 12 ga over the base line 20ga  or a mecha equivalent of a SAW over a std. assault rifle and even a mecha version of a .50 cal over the std. 7.62. realisitc swaps that I see in the field all the time. We don't get guys walking around with miniguns or random predators.. hell in all my years I've never even seen a REAL predator fire a durandal or hellfire..

OH! I'd also like it if the sensor suites did not have the ability to reach to the far corners of the game .. the worst thing about COD and the like is those of us who like to snipe or otherwise dig in to a FOB are unrealistically mangled by some nood with IR the overhead drone..

[3leggedFreak]

Don't complicate things that doesn't have to be complicated. A kill is a kill. Awarding the good players in a way that gives them a scripted advantage will take the fun out of the game for the newbies, giving the good players a penalty will just take the fun out of the game for them and people will stop playing. Why bother becoming better when it just ends with you trying to fight plasma cannons with a wooden sword_

Good gameplay should be based on simple rules that takes a minute to learn but a lifetime to master (the first one to answer where I stole that line from wins a price!).

[Man_Eating_Boar]

Nonono, The items dropped would not be upgrades.

Instead of becoming more powerfull; These items would only unlock more options; Each providing some sort of variation of gameplay.

[GTCv Deimos]

Frankly, i'm a huge fan of the Team Fortress 2 way of going about it... having equipment directly tied to achievements... and not "you scratched your butt for the 100th time" type achievements. Achievements that hint at special abilities ant tactics that aren't immediatly evident when you start the game.

Ummm... but no man co. store please

[Flyingdebris]

honestly, i don't think there should be leveling.  Players should start each round equal, no matter if they are expert or newbie.  Let the actual combat sort them out.

and i would be perfectly fine with all gear being available to everyone.  However i think as a server option, equipment could cost some amount of ingame currency that you can earn by killing opponents,  and performing actions that help your team within that game round.  In that way a server might be able to limit certain loadouts by making them prohibitedly expensive.

[NAVY MARCOM]

So.. your idea of fun is to kill the weaker gamers to make you more powerful.. lame.  Personally someone who uses the weaker players to bump up their skill points is an ass and should leave the game. Punishing gomers like you is why I'd want that implemented, so the casual gamer that likes the game but say.. lives on a ship or in the sandbox for months on end, can come home, jump in, and not have to worry about nerd-o fanboi's who do nothing but Hawken and have some sort of inferiority complex, so they prey on the guys with weaker skills and load-outs..  and how does getting killed within 3 sec by some ass-hat " take the fun out of it for the newbies_ ".. if anything the penalty system for being a epic cock will bring in more new people. I know allot fo people who don't bother with online FPS simply because of all the nerdo's who do nothing but sit there and practice their jump 360 AA-12 geek-o-rama kill skill.  I can't stop goofs like you from killing casual players like me, but i'd like to know that for each time your nerd ass kills me you get penalized for it.

if this game takes a min to learn then it's not a PC game, it's a console game where limited keys require the game to be 'easy', even mechwarrior had more key strokes then a 360/PS3 does. this game should have a few more then that. FGaming keyboards and mouse setups are so cheap now it's a no brainer to pick up one that allows you to customize key sets.
i

3leggedFreak said:

Don't complicate things that doesn't have to be complicated. A kill is a kill. Awarding the good players in a way that gives them a scripted advantage will take the fun out of the game for the newbies, giving the good players a penalty will just take the fun out of the game for them and people will stop playing. Why bother becoming better when it just ends with you trying to fight plasma cannons with a wooden sword_

Good gameplay should be based on simple rules that takes a minute to learn but a lifetime to master (the first one to answer where I stole that line from wins a price!).

[NAVY MARCOM]

That gets sort of boring, I know I like the idea of being able to customize my rig, I think the only way to solve this is to offer different game modes online.  Offering team play and FFA modes, long play and quick matches... With MW2 I hated some of the modes but loved others.

Flyingdebris said:

honestly, i don't think there should be leveling.  Players should start each round equal, no matter if they are expert or newbie.  Let the actual combat sort them out.

and i would be perfectly fine with all gear being available to everyone.  However i think as a server option, equipment could cost some amount of ingame currency that you can earn by killing opponents,  and performing actions that help your team within that game round.  In that way a server might be able to limit certain loadouts by making them prohibitedly expensive.

[Flyingdebris]

Well, what i don't want to see is what is going on in team fortress or other shooters with persistent stats and a system of long term unlockables.

As those level up systems inadvertently lead to the mentality that brings about achievement servers and grinding for gear, not to mention creates a huge barrier between newcomers and vets, a barrier that isn't just skill, but also that vets have piles of primo equipment hoarded over the course of hundreds of hours that lets them outperform the newbies.  That sort of gameplay discourages and scares off people that just want to have quick games while it encourages the grinders that want to waste hundreds if not thousands of hours earning make believe equipment to one up other people.

its my opinion that fun crunchy gameplay should be its own reward, not having to run around at some arbitrary disadvantage with a carrot on a stick waved in front of you the whole time.  At least as far as multi is concerned anyway.

If this was singleplayer, buying shit and earning stuff can make sense from the context of the setting, and the only person you are squaring off against is the computer.  But this is multi and with all the different people coming in with different skill levels and times spent playing, the only fair thing is to keep the playing field level as much as possible, and let things sort themselves from there within the game environment, based on skill and resourcefulness.

[3leggedFreak]

NAVY MARCOM said:

So.. your idea of fun is to kill the weaker gamers to make you more powerful.. lame.  Personally someone who uses the weaker players to bump up their skill points is an ass and should leave the game. Punishing gomers like you is why I'd want that implemented, so the casual gamer that likes the game but say.. lives on a ship or in the sandbox for months on end, can come home, jump in, and not have to worry about nerd-o fanboi's who do nothing but Hawken and have some sort of inferiority complex, so they prey on the guys with weaker skills and load-outs..  and how does getting killed within 3 sec by some ass-hat " take the fun out of it for the newbies_ ".. if anything the penalty system for being a epic cock will bring in more new people. I know allot fo people who don't bother with online FPS simply because of all the nerdo's who do nothing but sit there and practice their jump 360 AA-12 geek-o-rama kill skill.  I can't stop goofs like you from killing casual players like me, but i'd like to know that for each time your nerd ass kills me you get penalized for it.

if this game takes a min to learn then it's not a PC game, it's a console game where limited keys require the game to be 'easy', even mechwarrior had more key strokes then a 360/PS3 does. this game should have a few more then that. FGaming keyboards and mouse setups are so cheap now it's a no brainer to pick up one that allows you to customize key sets.

Next time I suggest you read the post you quote a bit more carefully, you obviously didn't get it. Calling me lame, nerd ass, goof etc just makes you look like a prick. If you had polished your geek-o-rama reading skills in school you would have found that I don't want a system that rewarded the good players, how that makes me a newbie slayer is beyond me.

Also, if you don't understand what I mean with "a minute to learn", dont bother replying to it. What I mean is that the gameplay should be the thing that takes time to master, not the 300 pages long manual that explain the rules of the game.

Walk it off.

[Mech Mechanic]

^Guys this is not the site for personal grudges or insults. For that we have the rest of this planet. Keep that out please. Being civil doesn't take much.

War gear should be available on the get go. This is your game play style. Why not make it available on the load out. That's the purpose of it.

[Dem]

HardBaller said:

IF they were to put something like this in the system....

Hmmm.. i'd have to say that i prefer te way assassins creed: brotherhood multiplayer does it.

They have a lvl lader system and not a "point shop". And you don't get like a rocket launcher right away as a low lvl. The higher the level you achieve (and the higher the level get the more xp you have to get the harder it becomes) you need better and better skills.

Wile at the higher levels when you (usually you also have those nooby xp farmers that can't do jack sh*t but still lvl up. can't help that unfortunately) you get things like a hidden pistol or poison gas.

Oh yeah because those things arent overpowered and annoying at all ^.^
Seriously, you dont even know who kills you half the time with poison, you just die randomly, it's soooo annoying.

So that may not be the best example as the devs are trying to keep it a level playing field between the new players and the old timers, or at least as level as they can, and putting in something like the poison in AC:B would totally break that.

But other than that, I think the leveling system unlocks would work good, but I also think that some sort of in-game currency would be wonderful - making the players pay for their mech upgrades, whether they are guns or camo's or paint jobs, etc.

[HardBaller]

Dem said:

HardBaller said:

IF they were to put something like this in the system....

Hmmm.. i'd have to say that i prefer te way assassins creed: brotherhood multiplayer does it.

They have a lvl lader system and not a "point shop". And you don't get like a rocket launcher right away as a low lvl. The higher the level you achieve (and the higher the level get the more xp you have to get the harder it becomes) you need better and better skills.

Wile at the higher levels when you (usually you also have those nooby xp farmers that can't do jack sh*t but still lvl up. can't help that unfortunately) you get things like a hidden pistol or poison gas.

Oh yeah because those things arent overpowered and annoying at all ^.^
Seriously, you dont even know who kills you half the time with poison, you just die randomly, it's soooo annoying.

So that may not be the best example as the devs are trying to keep it a level playing field between the new players and the old timers, or at least as level as they can, and putting in something like the poison in AC:B would totally break that.

But other than that, I think the leveling system unlocks would work good, but I also think that some sort of in-game currency would be wonderful - making the players pay for their mech upgrades, whether they are guns or camo's or paint jobs, etc.

Then how about something like the R&D that they have in World of Tanks_

You get exp for the things you do (win a match, destroy another tank etc.) and you spend that exp to research new parts for your tank following a tech tree. Then after you researched the part you don't have it right away you still have to play good enough or often enough to getter enough currency to buy and equip the new part/upgrade.

Been playing the game a bit since yesterday and i kinda like how that works to. Even the cheapest lightest tank can carry a pretty punch quickly if you R&D it the right way (gets a nice side of having the player making the right descisions at the right time as to what to research first and what later etc.).

Well if you don't know it have a look at it. It's P4F so it can't hurt.


ps. not saying to copy it exactly but parts of it or as an idea.

[The_Silencer]

Well, mostly yeah in an MMO environment but... NAVY has a point though. I mean..

What would be the feeling of a new player joining in a "people in here may have been accumulating cool stuff which you do not have yet" game_

Or you give him some kind of well refreshed average items (according to what the other players have..) or he's pretty screwed up in the very moment he joins in that game.

I'd have to admit on that this may look like some kind of a soft rock in the middle of some road.