46 replies to this topic

[NAVY MARCOM]

I traded my geek and 'be nice to nerds' skills at the door, before you were born, for a C7A2 and a MP5-N ..what's your excuse.

3leggedFreak said:

Next time I suggest you read the post you quote a bit more carefully, you obviously didn't get it. Calling me lame, nerd ass, goof etc just makes you look like a prick. If you had polished your geek-o-rama reading skills in school you would have found that I don't want a system that rewarded the good players, how that makes me a newbie slayer is beyond me.

Also, if you don't understand what I mean with "a minute to learn", dont bother replying to it. What I mean is that the gameplay should be the thing that takes time to master, not the 300 pages long manual that explain the rules of the game.

Walk it off.

[HardBaller]

The_Silencer said:

Well, mostly yeah in an MMO environment but... NAVY has a point though. I mean..

What would be the feeling of a new player joining in a "people in here may have been accumulating cool stuff which you do not have yet" game_

Or you give him some kind of well refreshed average items (according to what the other players have..) or he's pretty screwed up in the very moment he joins in that game.

I'd have to admit on that this may look like some kind of a soft rock in the middle of some road.

That's where you could input matchmaking based on skills/lvl/exp. Good vs good and bad vs bad to become good. It's a bit lame how i put it but that's the basic idea. Or give the choice to do just a random battle or to pick on yourself. And have to choice to set lvl based matchmaking on on of off. just idea's i know the work you need to put into it to make it work to. It's a lot but it could work in the long run.

[3leggedFreak]

NAVY MARCOM said:

I traded my geek and 'be nice to nerds' skills at the door, before you were born, for a C7A2 and a MP5-N ..what's your excuse.

Wow. That made me giggle. You can continue with your illiterate post if you wish but I don't want to drag this fine forum down with this kind of childishness. If you have someting more to add, use PM. Over and out.

[KellAset]

Personally I extremely like to have something to look forward to in game, something to unlock, smth that I can use later in game while playing, weapons/parts/mechs/camouflage patterns/additional slots for customized mechs/decals I can stick to my mechs etc. etc.

Battlefield 2142 may be example of how unlocks can get implemented well, nothing unlockable there will give super advantage to player, just adds more variety. Front Mission Evolved on other hand may be example of how unlockable mech parts/weapons/skills can make game not so friendly to new players.

Maybe if unlockable stuff will be present in game, it can be a little less annoying to new players if such prebuilt mechs customized with unlockable items will be also available and to all players no matter what level they are and no matter if they already unlocked items that those prebuilt mechs are equipped with. Such prebuilt mechs are present in FMEvolved I mentioned before but those there are customized rather not that well, most of them at least.

[LordPorkSword]

I agree!
Having to unlock extra things makes a game more appealing and keeps players who would normally go onto other games cuz they've already seen everything the game has to offer!

That said you still need variety from the get go, so players can experiment with different things to keep instant interest in the game!  The more they experiment the more they play which benefits everyone!

Say you have 2 weapon slots and 2 equipment slots on a mech.  Give access to a limited variety of weapons and equipment from the get go and players who invest their time get access to more equipment.  
This doesn't necessarily have to be more powerful unlockables but can be unlockables that add different elements to how you play.  

Eg.. do you keep your extra ammo capacity module to sustain you in the heat of battle or do you go for extra armour to defend you againt the opponent who is holding extra ammo.  Maybe you want that missle swarm capability module but aren't sure about the 2 shots you have before you run out of swarm ammo so you go for the lesser powered single targeting missle launcher that holds 12 rounds so you're not left without a high damage offensive weapon during heat of battle! Maybe you might even forget missles and go for more agile manouvering thrusters so you can break the lock from missle targeting systems...

Everything in a game can be balanced so unlocakables may give the illusion that they are better equipment but with proper balancing on unlockables old and new players can have equal footing on the battlefield with only each players skill deciding who reigns supreme!

[RedVan]

Leveling, etc... should be kept out imo.  All that does is reward people who play more, not those who are actually skilled.

APB is a prime example.  There are many people who play hours and hours to get the upgrades, and that's exactly why they win, because they have the upgrades.  Then, taking myself as an example, I come in with no upgrades, and even though I get the jump on them, I still lose because they have more HP and can do more damage.  Even though I start firing first.  And that right there is exactly why I'd never consider APB a skill based game, or one worth playing competitively.

I'd rather see this game reward player skill by allowing everyone to be on equal footing as far as armor and weapons go, then let those who are better, win, and those who aren't, lose.

A good way to keep a game rolling for a long period of time is having a well made game for skill based competition.  Having levels and upgrades etc will only keep people happy until they reach max level and/or a new game comes out.  A game with good competition, however, can last years.

That being said, would I mind a ranking system and achievements_  Not at all.  So long as they don't "unlock" better equipment for those who have "made it" (read:  played more hours than others).  If people really care about stats and having some shiny symbol by their name that identifies them as someone who has played the game hours on end, fine, go for it.  But should they get access to better equipment because of that_  Hellz no.

[Porcupine]

I also think that everyone should start equal, with access to the same gear, items and abilities, and let them choose which combination of said gear, items and abilities fits them best, allowing people to be creative by trying to come up with different combinations in order to counter eachothers loadouts and tactics. It would help keeping the gameplay fresh with a great variety of play styles.

I wouldn't mind a system of achievements that would award you with some unlockables as long as those unlockables are merely aesthetic, things like badges, paint jobs and similar, that you can put on your mech just for bragging purposes.

[The_Silencer]

This is a very sensitive subject, indeed.
I'm pretty curious on how the devs are gonna to approach this. Something says me that they are going to reveal more info on this relatively in brief. So keep up the good work up there!.

[Varaka]

I believe weapons should all be available from the start but must be bought with points earned by getting kills or doing something related to the objective (Objective points should be worth more than kills to promote teamplay). However I believe weapon upgrades (Which would add pros and cons to swapping it for the upgraded. Like Overheat delay for a weapon but longer overheat sorta thing). Should be earned by ranking up. I also believe mech appearence customization should be got by ranking up too. Thats my thoughts.

Sorry about grammar errors im very tired.  :|

[The_Silencer]

Tell that to me.. lol

Anyway, I'm curious on what kind of game mode you guys have in mind when you share your ideas on this matter. What comes to my mind is an instant action mp game ( like some sort of instant FFA ). Under other rules and/or game modes then the subject bends itself pretty much and ends up aiming to many distinct situations and or subsequently different issues, so to speak ...

[Varaka]

Game modes I'd like would be standard FFA and teams for hardcore killers, with things like Territories and Capture the _______. I'd also like to see if the developers can come up with something new and unique.

[Flyingdebris]

one reason that i would prefer like crazy to get all the equipment at once, is that it gives players ZERO incentive to make achievement/XP grinding servers, or resorting to unscrupulous gameplay like bf2's friendly fire revivers.  Especially since adhesive probably has better things to do with their time than trying to police that sort of behavior.  I mean, do we really want the game to turn into Team Hatress 2_

Every shooter i've played that had multiplayer equipment unlocks, all the unlocks ever served as was an artificially imposed probationary period of gameplay where new players or players new to a class are gimped vs veterans until they've wasted time being everyone's buttmonkey to earn enough of the unlocks to compete properly, after which unlocks just become standard gear and stop feeling special at all anyway.

I'd rather be thinking about how imma gonna kill some assface who keeps zipping around at high speed and let the combat be its own reward, instead of how much xp this kill is gonna be worth so that i can finally earn that gun that looks exactly the same but is .05% better than the one i already have.

besides, the MMO mindset of having the carrot continually on a stick in front of you, being periodically rewarded with trinkets is out and out Pavlovian style training. Rats being rewarded with food pellets/dogs salivating at bells type stuff.  its a shame more people don't see that.

[RedVan]

Varaka said:

I believe weapons should all be available from the start but must be bought with points earned by getting kills or doing something related to the objective (Objective points should be worth more than kills to promote teamplay). However I believe weapon upgrades (Which would add pros and cons to swapping it for the upgraded. Like Overheat delay for a weapon but longer overheat sorta thing). Should be earned by ranking up. I also believe mech appearence customization should be got by ranking up too. Thats my thoughts.

Sorry about grammar errors im very tired.  :|

The nice thing about this is it can be implemented as a game mode.  Look at MWLL.  They have a system like this, but the server admins can chose to enable or disable it.  Would be a cool option.

This is all done on a game to game basis.  So, you may get to top rank in one game, but you start back at 0 for the next game.

The problem that would be encountered here is HAWKEN looks to be a much faster paced game than MWLL.  This system works with MWLL because the games last 30-120+min.  Gives you time to rank up.  From the looks of HAWKEN, games will last 20-30min.  However, the amount of time it takes could potentially be adjusted as well.  Make more points required before a team wins, etc...  while still keeping the gameplay pace up.

[Dahdah]

I like the idea of having new weapons/equipment/toys to chase after in some sort of rank/skill tree. But, I don't think they should give any added advantage to higher ranks. Most modern shooters start off at/near the beginning with at least one powerful, easy-to-use weapon. I actually enjoy getting lesser capable guns later, then raising my skill level to be able to use them as well as the 'easier' toys.

[RedVan]

I should mention:

I wouldn't mind leveling if the rewards are only aesthetic.  For example, unlocking new colors to color your mech, new symbols to put on it, etc...

[colR]

Redvan said:

I should mention:

I wouldn't mind leveling if the rewards are only aesthetic.  For example, unlocking new colors to color your mech, new symbols to put on it, etc...

I second this motion.

[The_Silencer]

At this moment, I do concur as well.

[IV Lucidity]

I'd like for the weapons/armor to be earned via rank or skill. Either or will do fine.

[RedVan]

IV Lucidity said:

I'd like for the weapons/armor to be earned via rank or skill. Either or will do fine.

The problem with that is skill never plays a factor.  It's all about time.  How many hours have you put in grinding your rank up to get better equipment.  Then, when someone who is actually good at games comes in and plays, they're up against some noob that has all the good equipment because they've spent more time in the game.

I want to see straight up player skill vs player skill.  Not: "I play more than you so I have better eq and I win haha".

[KellAset]

It is not like some unlockable equipment needs to be better than what is available from the start. It just needs to be different somehow.