53 replies to this topic

[Timber_Wolf]

Lithium03, on November 21 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

c0mad0r, on November 21 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

*Something* still just does NOT feel right playing. While I cannot place it just yet, the game just feels... "blah" this CBE3.

Most weapons took a nerf in some way, most being higher heat per second.

Timber_Wolf, on November 21 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

The vulcan numbers in game still appear to be wrong, I think...
Can someone confirm whether or not 100 heat is shutdown_  The vulcan lists a lower heat but seems to be overheating at about the same time, like nothing got fixed.

From what the tooltip implies and what happens in-game, I would assume that you overheat at 100.

Then yeah, the numbers are still wrong.  I'm overheating at under 7 seconds even with heatsinks and max heat reduction when it should be closer to 9.

[Lithium03]

Timber_Wolf, on November 21 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Lithium03, on November 21 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

c0mad0r, on November 21 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

*Something* still just does NOT feel right playing. While I cannot place it just yet, the game just feels... "blah" this CBE3.

Most weapons took a nerf in some way, most being higher heat per second.

Timber_Wolf, on November 21 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

The vulcan numbers in game still appear to be wrong, I think...
Can someone confirm whether or not 100 heat is shutdown_  The vulcan lists a lower heat but seems to be overheating at about the same time, like nothing got fixed.

From what the tooltip implies and what happens in-game, I would assume that you overheat at 100.

Then yeah, the numbers are still wrong.  I'm overheating at under 7 seconds even with heatsinks and max heat reduction when it should be closer to 9.

That would imply they updated the tooltip but forgot to actually change the weapon stats.

[Timber_Wolf]

Lithium03, on November 21 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

That would imply they updated the tooltip but forgot to actually change the weapon stats.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Lithium03]

Timber_Wolf, on November 21 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Lithium03, on November 21 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

That would imply they updated the tooltip but forgot to actually change the weapon stats.

I was thinking the same thing.

Should probably file a bug report.

[Timber_Wolf]

Yup, just did.

[Chouzin]

For me, Vulcan still overheats at 7 seconds..._

[johnbearross]

Thanks, Devs, for giving me back a chance to play my Sharpshooter and enjoy it.  I'm not the best player, but I'm also not just a chew-toy for Rocketeers anymore.

Best,
JBR

[Cpt_Hadriel]

Still feels underpowered compared to what i was used to... my assault still rips SS part no problem... and i got sick of playing ss after 5 min... you sure you changed the stats_ If you did change it than change more, but at lest you are going the right way... The key to sharpshoter would be having it exactly like in cb2 for the weapons and you can keep this mech speed from cb3... for "balance".

[Sparkard]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on November 21 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

But please, next time, try not to go too far outside the box with these experiments in weapon stats land _

Yeah that was quite radical, but as long as they listen to community and are willing to undo the changes they made (what is surprisingly rare amongst game developers, it have something with that undoing changes they made is like admitting they were wrong, i saw such kind of behaviour in many game's many times) then i'm perfectly ok with that. (EDIT:// Also, devs did mostly what players asked for, it might have been a little bit too extreem in some cases but it can be tweaked)

If you want to make sharpshooter more sniper like and raise the skill floor for him i'd say it'd be good to:
-raise sabot's accuracy even more, i'd prefer no deviation but it's just me (for me, random deviation on slow precision weapons makes it feel like it's not skill that counts but luck)
-buff sabot's damage on long range.
-make sabot's damage (or accuracy) decrease the closer the enemy is. On medium range, similiar to it's current damage.
-In CQC, nerf it's damage/accuraty to oblivion.
-add significant bullet drop for sabot, that way it'l require more skill form player to hit someone on long range but will be more rewarding. Also with correct balancing and without random deviation it makes it less luck based.

It's just a quick thought but there are many ways to change the model described above to make SS more interesting and sniper like, while rising skill floor without making it useless.

Edited by Sparkard, November 22 2012 - 06:03 PM.

[The_Silencer]

Thanks for the heads up, Hugs!

Although it might look like if I'm late on this, Just to remind you that I'm living 8 hours ahead in the future. Plus RL effects.. heheheh.

Hey, just to say thanks!

[Decoy101x]

i -almost- disagree with reducing the heat generation of the point d vulcan

but at the same time i love the gun so im torn! hhaha

[Decoy101x]

Sparkard, on November 22 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on November 21 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

But please, next time, try not to go too far outside the box with these experiments in weapon stats land _

Yeah that was quite radical, but as long as they listen to community and are willing to undo the changes they made (what is surprisingly rare amongst game developers, it have something with that undoing changes they made is like admitting they were wrong, i saw such kind of behaviour in many game's many times) then i'm perfectly ok with that.

If you want to make sharpshooter more sniper like and raise the skill floor for him i'd say it'd be good to:
-raise sabot's accuracy even more, i'd prefer no deviation but it's just me (for me, random deviation on slow precision weapons makes it feel like it's not skill that counts but luck)
-buff sabot's damage on long range.
-make sabot's damage (or accuracy) decrease the closer the enemy is. On medium range, similiar to it's current damage.
-In CQC, nerf it's damage/accuraty to oblivion.
-add significant bullet drop for sabot, that way it'l require more skill form player to hit someone on long range but will be more rewarding. Also with correct balancing and without random deviation it makes it less luck based.

It's just a quick thought but there are many ways to change the model described above to make SS more interesting and sniper like, while rising skill floor without making it useless.

bulletdrop yes, everything else no. but i like your style of thinking. methodical and with reason, not just spewing out garbage. =D

[Sparkard]

@Decoy101x:
Thx for reading it all. I've intentionally put all buffs before nerfs so i know if someone read it to the end or saw first few lines and decided it's a QQ buff my ss post, so i won't waste my time on replying to people that didn't even read what i wrote .

Scout is tbh pretty effective at medium range and can wreck a C-class mech in no time (unless it's rocketeer, but that will change when most of mechs in game you'll see will be rocketeers, i like how it's now easier to hit with hellfires, even unguided, more splash radius_ Anyway more heat on seekers is imho a good idea), but is pretty much useless on medium-long to long range, and if enemy is better then he can kill you because of scaut's low health.
All of current mechs are best at short to medium range (unless it's rocketeer, it's most affective at all ranges :S with only exception being 10cm range but even with that i'm not so sure) it'd be nice to have one mech that'd be most effective at long range.

So let me explain it a little bit more.
Long range damage buff still wouldn't allow you to one-shot or two-shot anyone and there's enough places to hide even if you've been hit twice, but if you try to actually help teammates, they'd have no problem in finishing them.
Now if someone sees that there's SS shooting at them, he can just say it, spot it if he knows where he is and tell team to take cover and/or send anyone to take him down, anyone is sufficient if he knows where ss is or is fast enough to get on close range. That should work because ss prefer to shoot at easier targets -> C-class and sending A-class that is the quickest but lacks firepower (so you won't lose too much of firepower on the front line) would be the best to take ss out. (Also with recent map modification there's even more ways to get behind enemy so you don't have to worry about getting through enemy's wall of fire.

There are two things/flaws i don't like in my solution:
-It's really hard to explain more damage on longer range if we want bullet drop.
-Requiring more teamwork doesn't equal encouraging more team work, and even encouragement seems to be not enough if you're playing with "casuals"/new players etc. . That's probably why devs resigned from depleting EU-generators (one player at a time, changes, others secure that guy on the way home if needed) and longer games/ more eu needed to launch the ship (so better players don't feel burdened when there's no teamwork in their team, now they have better chances of flipping the advantage to their side by themselves.
In CBE2 i managed once to launch mother ship twice in 1v4 game. Sure one guy didn't really know what he's doing and other 2 of them were assaults more concerned about killing me than launching their ship and were nice enough to come at me one by one with full EU tanks. Of cours it was impossible to get my ships through but heh.. if this what i did was even slightly possible provided you had luck, then now it's even more viable (and i'm not sure if i like that but i understand that not everybody, including myself, have always time to play a ~50min game, not to mention it may be just tiring especially the game happens to be one-sided)).

[Sparkard]

And now, the rocketeer:
I think he should generate more heat with seekers.
In order to compensate for it a little bit and make him more interesting and skill rewarding (he's fun to play when he's op, but not that much interesting) my idea is that hellfire missles should in croshair's direction, slowly but constantly arc towards the target and homing power should be bigger when missles fly direction is more offpossitoned from target direction, if it's like that already then this effect should (by should i mean that's just my idea ofc , idk if it's really good but it's up to you to discuss it ofc ) be enchanced, because i don't feel it too much, but heh, i need to do some more testing tbh. When in close proximity to the target missles would ..umm.. "jump" at the enemy.
By that i mean that they'd do a small but fast turn towards the enemy, gain a little of speed but no longer home just fly straight.

I hope you don't mind the reference but it look somewhat like LRMs from mech warrior with the difference that it wouldn't be just stay still and spam, player would have to choose missle's fly arc both vertically and horizontally, trying to adapt to hawken more diverse maps and move while acquiring target in order to give his missles a better flight path (or when backing away in order to path his rockets through the chokepoint/edge fo cover, while taking also taking cover by himself.

Now some awesome pictures for better description:

(unsuccessful*)
Different fire angles:


This idea can be tweaked in many ways to make rocketeer more skill rewarding.

Ps. Sorry for my poor engrish.

Edited by Sparkard, November 22 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[defekt]

fussgeist, on November 21 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Whats the point to an inaccurate slow weak SS_  You can't camp, and you can't play fight then flight.

All I can say here about at least one of your grievances is that I played the Alpha*.

* This phrase may become the '<AOL>' of the Hawken fora.  

[DarkPulse]

Having gotten the chance to Sharpshoot a bit, it does definitely feel a lot better, but I do agree it's still "off." In particular, it seems like you still have to be pretty much standing still for the slug rifle to ever hit. (We kind of expect that with the Sabot, but not the slug.)

It also does seem that the bullets do have a slight travel time now; it starts being noticeable on longer-range shots. Can we get some confirmation on this, please_

[Sparkard]

Yeah, i must agree that it's much better now but still feels "off" like DarkPulse said.
I can't say much on bullet flight time because recenly there have been not many sieges around my area and on US servers i get some really bad pings now (around 444 >.< ) so i have to compensate for it anyway :/ .

I like the new feel of SA, feels much more heavy now, like it really is some kind of vehicle mounted autocanon. As far as slug is concerned, didn't like fire rate increase but i still have to test it properly now.

Edited by Sparkard, November 23 2012 - 05:54 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

I was thinking more on this in regards to the sharpie and it's weapons, especially the slug and sabot, and the problem with the way it is now, and had this thought...

The slug/sabot are weapons of opportunity.  They are best used to get that one last hit in as an enemy dashes between two points of cover, or just before they turn around a corner.

I would argue that it took a fair amount of skill to be able to notice the enemy marker on screen, be able to scope in to the right point where the pilot has LoS (which quite often is a very narrow section of the map), and be able to make an accurate shot in that split second before that LoS is lost.

I can't remember the number of times this exact thing happened to me.  I saw the enemy marker box, zoomed and aimed into a very narrow space, and was able to get a hit (or make a kill) only because I had a shot for a very small amount of time.  Now with the weapons not being hitscan, it makes this that much harder, if not impossible.

I'm all for balancing the weapons and making it a good mech for those who are skilled, but I do wonder if these last changes may have made the skill requirements to be effective a bit too high...

Feel free to debate and point out the flaws, that's what we as beta testers are here for, to discuss balance and such.

Edited by bacon_avenger, November 24 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[PlagueDoctor]

The Vulcan definitely needs to be buffed. I was in contact with an enemy c-class, with my Vulcan firing full auto, and I couldn't kill him before overheating. (also I was hoping to get a Miniflak on my bruiser at level 20)

[Dreizehn]

I don't think a Vulcan should be that powerful. I suppose it could use a bit more edge over the AR and the SMC considering it has a spool up time to make up for, but I kinda like it as the burstier heatier end of the auto weapons.

Needs a sorta strange comfy spot in between the Flak and the SMC.