11 replies to this topic

[KejiGoto]

So we all know by now that Matchmaking doesn't balance out games it is merely placing us on servers so the question I have to the rest of us here is why don't we take the time to balance out games_ Constantly I'm joining matches to find one team miles ahead of the other and yet nothing is done in most cases. Now I'm not talking about matches where both teams have the same amount of players or teams are full I'm talking matches where there is room for someone to move over to the losing team and attempt to swing the balance of power.

This situation is getting old and whenever I raise the subject in-game it is typically met with "Typical game of Hawken lololol" yet it is stuff like this which is going to instantly turn new players off. I've got zero issues with losing a match but I would at least like something of a fair fight. When I'm seeing two or three players on one team pulling in 15+ kills each while the highest score on the losing team is around 5 clearly there's some room for player made balancing.

We get it, some of you are damn good at this and when you team up with a few others like yourself you guys just steamroll the other side but why not change it up_ You're not pushing your skills in this situation and it certainly doesn't make you a better player so what is the point beyond stroking your own ego_

This aspect of the game is currently broke but it doesn't have to be. That is what truly bugs me about the situation and ultimately why I'm making this thread. Maybe I'm alone in wanting a fair fight; whenever I see the other side is losing by a wide margin and there's an opening on the team I switch over to give them some help. It isn't like your stats are going to matter anyways because all that is getting wiped come Open Beta so why not put your ego aside and try to make things at least semi fair on the battlefield_

I just don't understand the point of stacking teams and steamrolling the other side. People quit out of games when this happen and it only makes the situation worse. This is something we can fix people so let's fix it.

[marshalade]

I switch. Adding a "balance teams 2012" to my sig just for you!

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

The problem is that we can't always fix it.

Example : tonight i played a 3 on 3 TDM with a friend who's got only lvl 1-2 Mechs, and another teammate who had a lvl 3 Bruiser, while i played a lvl 11 Rocketeer (which is now lvl 13)
We had a Lvl 2 Sharpshooter, a lvl 1 Assault and a lvl 3 Rocketeer up against us, and through sheer teamwork we steamrolled them 3 times.
I switched to my lvl 5 Bruiser, didn't make a differenfe for them... I even suggested they try teaming up against us, but all i got was the complaint about stacked teams and bad matchmaking...
I mean, what do i do then, leave because i've got a lvl 11 Rocketeer and a lvl 5 Bruiser _

I know matchmaking needs a lot of work still, but if people go solo on TDM and a team loses...
Sorry, but don't play the team based modes then if you won't teamwork.

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, November 28 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[KejiGoto]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on November 28 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

The problem is that we can't always fix it.

Example : tonight i played a 3 on 3 TDM with a friend who's got only lvl 1-2 Mechs, and another teammate who had a lvl 3 Bruiser, while i played a lvl 11 Rocketeer (which is now lvl 13)
We had a Lvl 2 Sharpshooter, a lvl 1 Assault and a lvl 3 Rocketeer up against us, and through sheer teamwork we steamrolled them 3 times.
I switched to my lvl 5 Bruiser, didn't make a differenfe for them... I even suggested they try teaming up against us, but all i got was the complaint about stacked teams and bad matchmaking...
I mean, what do i do then, leave because i've got a lvl 11 Rocketeer and a lvl 5 Bruiser _

I know matchmaking needs a lot of work still, but if people go solo on TDM and a team loses...
Sorry, but don't play the team based modes then if you won't teamwork.

I'm not talking about situations like this though where the numbers are fair, I'm talking about situations where one team has more players than the other and still no one switches sides. Even when it is just one up on the other team if you're going 60+ kills against maybe 20 something needs to happen.

Again I've got zero issues with losing in a situation like you described. If you outgun and outplay me that is rather awesome in my opinion because I usually learn something during the process. In fact it's rather nice in those situations because I get to see how different tactics play out and it forces me to try new things in an attempt to win.

When I'm seeing 6v5, 6v4, and so on though that's when I take issue with steamrolling the other side.

And please don't mistake this for QQing over some losses because I truly don't care about my win/loss ratio, I'm here to have fun and help this game grow. I understand that there is a wide margin in player skills and that is what ultimately is going to determine who wins (as it should). Of course you shouldn't leave the game just because you're better lol.

@ marshalade

Thanks! And that's all I'm really asking for is just to switch teams up and not have all the good players pile onto one side every match. If you have an amazing match and teams were even that is awesome for you guys!

[z121231211]

KejiGoto, on November 28 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

I just don't understand the point of stacking teams and steamrolling the other side. People quit out of games when this happen and it only makes the situation worse. This is something we can fix people so let's fix it.

People quit games that are evenly matched when it goes from 2,1 to 1,1 (Base Health,Enemy Base Health). RQs are going to RQ unless you give them the win.

[KejiGoto]

z121231211, on November 28 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

KejiGoto, on November 28 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

I just don't understand the point of stacking teams and steamrolling the other side. People quit out of games when this happen and it only makes the situation worse. This is something we can fix people so let's fix it.

People quit games that are evenly matched when it goes from 2,1 to 1,1 (Base Health,Enemy Base Health). RQs are going to RQ unless you give them the win.

There isn't much that can be done about them sadly. Last night I joined a server where it was 2v1, then my teammate dropped out of the match but I managed to keep winning so the other two players just quit leaving me alone. Those situations suck but I've seen people drop out of matches who stick it out for awhile and then eventually get sick of things being 6v3 and just getting steamrolled every time.

This won't fix all the problems but balancing done by the players will definitely help the issue.

[Ollie]

Add people to your friends list and invite them into the room.

You're not seeing this behavior because pubstomping is fun.  You're seeing this behavior because people want to play with their friends.  The only solution I've ever seen to this is some sort of "party" system within matchmaking; and honestly, I wonder how difficult it must be since it should be standard fuzzying issue on any sort of multiplayer game these days.  I autistically rock back and forth and mumble to myself in the corner about this late at night.

I'm happy to try and "even things up."  I'm not really happy to volunteer to put myself on a team of no-mics and no-cooperation - that's even *less* fun than roflstomping, if you can believe it.

So instead of QQ'ing about how folks need to balance the teams, how about you add a couple folks to your friends list_  Unless we miraculously get some badly needed changes to matchmaking, the onus on fixing this actually lies with you.

[KejiGoto]

Ollie, on November 29 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

So instead of QQ'ing about how folks need to balance the teams, how about you add a couple folks to your friends list_  Unless we miraculously get some badly needed changes to matchmaking, the onus on fixing this actually lies with you.

I'm not QQing here, I'm simply making a suggestion that players themselves try to balance things out. I don't feel like randomly inviting people to my friend's list in hopes of teaming up and what have you.

I just don't get the point of steamrolling a team when the good team could divide up and try taking on people at their own skill level.

Again it isn't hard to constantly win when people keep stacking teams and it certainly isn't making them better players.

It is nonsense like this which is going to kill this game when it goes to Open Beta because getting stomped at every turn is going to turn new players away, especially when it is 6v3 and other ridiculous team setups like that.

If you guys want to keep doing this sort of nonsense by my guest but don't be surprised when the community doesn't take off because new players don't enjoy constantly having things stacked against them like them. Personally I find it boring as hell when the other team doesn't stand a chance.

[Ollie]

KejiGoto, on November 29 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

I'm not QQing here, I'm simply making a suggestion that players themselves try to balance things out. I don't feel like randomly inviting people to my friend's list in hopes of teaming up and what have you.

That's how it's worked for all of these other individuals who played a game with one another, got a kick out of the other's company (for skill, humor, or whatever reason) and sent a friend request.  If you don't feel like having any friends...well, then you're not going to be playing with any friends, huh_  You know these aren't friends "for realsies" right_  You don't actually have to take them to the bar afterward.

Quote

I just don't get the point of steamrolling a team when the good team could divide up and try taking on people at their own skill level.

Again it isn't hard to constantly win when people keep stacking teams and it certainly isn't making them better players.

Because, as I've said above, you're identifying the wrong criteria by which to measure people's actions.  These statements assume that people are stacking because they want to win.  No, I'm stacking because Evolwar makes me laugh extra hard, I saw his little friend indicator turn bright green, and I wanted to play some games with him.  Joining a game to *not* talk to the guy for 20 minutes is antithetical to that goal.

You're also making an assumption that people value "wins" or "becoming better players" over having a good time with the folks you've met and hit it off with.  I think this is a faulty assumption.  If you were correct, I'd bail on Evolwar as soon as we lost one.  That doesn't happen.  Are you sure that you're not the one with the complex regarding winning_

Quote

It is nonsense like this which is going to kill this game when it goes to Open Beta because getting stomped at every turn is going to turn new players away, especially when it is 6v3 and other ridiculous team setups like that.

If you guys want to keep doing this sort of nonsense by my guest but don't be surprised when the community doesn't take off because new players don't enjoy constantly having things stacked against them like them. Personally I find it boring as hell when the other team doesn't stand a chance.

Agreed.  It is certainly some sort of nonsense for a person to be complaining about friends joining other friends using in-game systems when he himself refuses to use those systems.

I agree that it's boring as hell when the other team doesn't stand a chance.  They usually don't.  At least when I'm hanging with friends, I'm entertained.

Again, the solution to stacking isn't "hey you stackers should fix that," because you're making the assumption that the stackers are valuing the same things you are (winning, and becoming a better player).  Sorry, I'm too busy laughing my ass off to hold those as higher values than, say, hanging out with someone who you enjoy spending time with.

Quit being an insular fuzzy bunny.  Go make some internet friends.

edit:  you can even (shocker!) add *me* as a friend and come play with *me* in *my* games.  you're more than welcome to do so.  And oddly enough, rooms that are almost entirely made of people that enjoy one another's company tend to be pretty balanced -- you'll have friends on either team that way.

Edited by Ollie, November 29 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[DM30]

Personally, I've been pleasantly surprised by how willing people actually have been to switch teams when there's a numbers imbalance and the game is clearly one-sided. I know I do it, and if I'm on the side that's down 5 to 3 or something like that and I ask if anyone's willing to switch to even things out, the vast majority of the time someone does. I could just be having good luck with who I end up in servers with, but it does give me at least a little bit of hope for the general attitude of the player base.

But I agree entirely. If you outnumber the other team and are clearly dominating the game, there's no excuse for leaving things unbalanced just to net yourself an easy win. Show a little sportsmanship and turn it into a fair match. It'll be more enjoyable for everyone.

And @Ollie: I think you've missed the point of the OP's original comments. I don't really see how wanting balanced games equates to not wanting to make friends in the player community. Believe it or not, it CAN be fun to play matches AGAINST your friends from time to time.

[h0B0]

Meh didn't bother to read most of this.

Most people know my stance on this topic by now. Need i state it again_

People who enjoy stacking will stack.
People who do not care will not care.
People who wish to balance will try to most of the time.

Humans being animals is the natural order of things. Evolution is a powerful thing and its main driving force is selfishness.

[SunshineSloth]

It basically comes down to do what you can accept what you must  We can't enforce self regulation beyond ourselves.

Much of the angst will be alleviated in time with proper matchmaking and server browsing. We just don't have the infrastructure for clans and teams yet.

Edited by SunshineSloth, November 29 2012 - 07:07 PM.