36 replies to this topic

[Elix]

nihilistic_killer, on February 01 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

As others have mentioned, the amount of cover in Haken makes a dedicated "sniper and sniper only" class a waste of time...

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the Siege/Missile Assault objective points are in exposed, vulnerable areas that have clear line of sight from multiple vantage points (not so much on the upper EU point on Bazaar, but it's still an exposed arena).

Sharpshooter is not your best choice in a deathmatch, but the objective-based gamemodes let it actually play a point-denial/long-range sniping support role. Some of the C-class mechs suffer from the same unsuitability for deathmatch (compared to, say, Fred, which does fine).

[nihilistic_killer]

Elix, on February 01 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

nihilistic_killer, on February 01 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

As others have mentioned, the amount of cover in Haken makes a dedicated "sniper and sniper only" class a waste of time...

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the Siege/Missile Assault objective points are in exposed, vulnerable areas that have clear line of sight from multiple vantage points (not so much on the upper EU point on Bazaar, but it's still an exposed arena).

Sharpshooter is not your best choice in a deathmatch, but the objective-based gamemodes let it actually play a point-denial/long-range sniping support role. Some of the C-class mechs suffer from the same unsuitability for deathmatch (compared to, say, Fred, which does fine).

I'll admit that I'm very new to this game and have mainly been playing DM and TDM so far. Personally, I think all classes should be of pretty much equal viability in all game types.

[Morphman]

Sure, it would be very convenient to be able to take advantage of that low-mid-range, but wouldn't it be equally convenient for a FRED to be able to lock on with his TOW or for the Rocketeers lock on to be able to fire around corners without hitting the walls_

There's a reason SS is either long range or point-blanc, and that is because it's their play style. You're not supposed to be in their mid-range, or short range, you're supposed to find a hiding spot from afar, take one or two down, then move to another advantage point.

To make SS a mid-range sniper as well as long-range is like saying "We don't want no tactics here, son. We're only playing Rambo Style!".

[Elix]

nihilistic_killer, on February 02 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

I'll admit that I'm very new to this game and have mainly been playing DM and TDM so far. Personally, I think all classes should be of pretty much equal viability in all game types.

TF2 doesn't have a free-for-all deathmatch game mode, but would you criticise Valve because Medic and Sniper were not viable because they're heavily dependent on support from their team_

I'm willing to bet that someone in Hawken can dominate a FFA DM match in a Sharpshooter or a Rocketeer. And not against level 1 noobs, mind you, but against a generally fair skill spread. However, the skill and experience and familiarity needed to top the leaderboard in a longer-range support mech compared to, say, a Heat Scout, is that much higher. Someone who is new to the game... just isn't going to have that experience under their belt. Not all mechs are of equal challenge -- that's why they have their difficulty ratings displayed in the garage/mech store.

[TwiceDead]

Elix, on January 19 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

If you're a sharpshooter and in CQC, you deserve the death you have been getting.

I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter bull.... ...
Following this flawed logic that a class deserves to die for being engaged in a zone that's not it's strongpoint is utter stupidity.

"Oh yeah sorry I snuck up on you in stealth as an infiltrator, now I am hugging your back. So you should just roll over and die now without defending yourself plz-k-thx."

Sounds legit.

On topic: Now I don't want a second zoom. Having to zoom more than once takes valuable fractions of a second. Unless this is an option of either but not both, then ... Meh, i am indifferent.

marshalade, on January 19 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

You should not be rewarded in allowing yourself to get caught up in CQC. You do not deserve a crutch in that situation. Of all the mechs, Sharpshooter relies most on intelligent positioning to stay alive. Why should you be given an option to circumvent that fact_

This makes sense.

Edited by TwiceDead, February 02 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Elix]

TwiceDead, on February 02 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

Elix, on January 19 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

If you're a sharpshooter and in CQC, you deserve the death you have been getting.

I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter bull.... ...
Following this flawed logic that a class deserves to die for being engaged in a zone that's not it's strongpoint is utter stupidity.

Elix, on January 19 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Edit: Looking back over the thread, I should clarify my original statement. If you're in CQC voluntarily in a SS, you deserve the flaming wreckage you're about to leave behind, because you should be running either for help from teammates, or running and trying to lead the guy coming after you (you kept an eye on your radar in between Sabot scope-ins, didn't you_) into hostiles (in FFA DM) that'll hopefully pick on him first. Complaining about the fact that the Sabot is difficult to use in CQC indicates to me that you're not running away and instead choosing to stand your ground and engage a close-range mech with your long-range sniper mech.

[Funnydeath1]

Sharpshooter played in close range is the funniest thing of that game. A 2nd zoom will kill that feature..
I think it's really useless, and hitting with the sabot it's not all luck

[Kinzuko]

annother zoom would be very clunky because in other fps's you can just switch to secondary and switch back quickly to get out of first zoom and into a regular view and click the key again to get out of second zoom.
in this however you cant just switch weapons and get out of it you have to zoom again then get out

[Diabetus88]

I could agree to the SS getting a 2nd zoom but not the reaper.

[Chince_Bucket]

terrible idea, i bet youd like the sabot to turn into a shotgun when the enimies get close.

its a sharpshooter for a reason its not good clsoe

[BucketOfSkin]

Adjust your field of view in the game's settings. When in close to mid cap ranged battles are you really going to want the second 'up close' zoom_ It would take longer to cycle out to re-adjust hip shots and you want to be watching your radar anyway. Now granted, the no-scope CS type of shooting takes time to master but I can see where two zooms are important to you if you can't do this very well. In my opinion, the SS is effective in all combat ranges with the right pilot. It's great up close when using cover because you have more health than A's and the powershot people are still complaining is too OP. Now, if you are the type that is just comfortable with long range engagements maybe scope options could be a feature to add! I would love to modify internal components of my weapons!! I do that now with my current firearms that I own in the real world and it brings a lot of thought into the function.

[EliteShooter]

bad idea !!! bad !

[thatguythellama]

P4THF1ND3R, on January 19 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

Elix, on January 19 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

If you're a sharpshooter and in CQC, you deserve the death you have been getting.

This is completely wrong. There is not one player in the game, who while in a SS, has not had someone come into CQ combat with in a match. Saying they deserve death for something inevitable, is just a childish and poorly thought through response. Every SS player knows this needs to happen. You can't be zooming in while in CQ combat as its no affective at all at its current magnification. And standing still whilst in CQ combat is yet again, not an option. So a lesser zoom level, does indeed need to be added in order for SS users to not be inevitably fuzzy bunny at their next CQ/Medium range encounter.

Being able to use your slug rifle every now and again has nothing to do with it, the fact is the enemy is able to use both their weapons, and you can only use the slug effectively. But if another zoom was added, this would make it a heck of a lot more balanced for the guy in the SS. as he can actually use his sabot now.

No, the ss should be an easy kill in cqc, it's a SNIPER, not a brawler. The sniper should be nerfed at close range, not buffed. That's like saying the scout should be buffed for long range combat, it's not meant to be, don't make it.

Edited by thatguythellama, June 07 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[Noptics]

How about just make the zoom transition faster and use the standard display. At present it is very jarring. These are mechs right_ it's not exactly as if the pilot has to carefully get his eye snuggled into a fuzzy bunny sight!

Humour me, the 'real world' is viewed via a display not through panes of glass, how else does the ICSM work right_
SO
Ditch the fuzzy bunny 'scope' malarkey, use the main display view even when 'scoped' and make the whole transition almost seamless PERHAPS HAVE THIS STRAIGHT UP DO AWAY WITH THE F'D UP 'PRECISION OVERDRIVE' ABILITY!_!_  WHAT_ WHAT'S THAT_! DID I JUST WIN THE INTERNET_!_!

...nope, probably not, I'll bet the Rum counts as a 'performance enhancing' disqualification :/

What about keep the stupid ability, keep the stupid scope animation and either speed it up like it oughtta be in a goddamed first person combat vehicle OR...  make it bypass the scrambling effects of an ICSM strike! [imgderp]trollface.jpg[/attachgnaarf]

Edited by Noptics, June 02 2014 - 02:56 AM.

[Terr_]

NECROPOST

Please check the dates  of posts, before arguing about things which have changed since then.

[Rei]

nihilistic_killer, on February 01 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

Actually, I think the Sabot just needs better no-scoped accuracy. I tried this earlier tonight: even while standing perfectly still and shooting at a wall 15 meters away, the majority of shots go wide. Moving doesn't seem to make it much worse, it just sucks to begin with.

Also, when testing quick-scoped shots against said wall, I discovered that there is a substantial gap between when you start zooming and when your accuracy changes. It's probably about 0.15 or 0.2 seconds, which doesn't sound like much, but it makes things much more difficult than, say, the AWP in CS, which you can no-scope in the blink of an eye.

As others have mentioned, the amount of cover in Haken makes a dedicated "sniper and sniper only" class a waste of time... I say make the SS more appropriate for medium-short range. Make the no-scope Sabot precise enough that it can become the standard way to use the weapon, but keep the scope as a necessary tool for the long distance encounters (which are currently in the minority).

Considering that (no-scope) Sabot damage is 136, cool down is 5 secs, and it generates quite a lot of heat, I don't see this change making the SS OP at all. Yeah, it would allow good SS pilots to make some nasty plays with twitch-shots at medium-close range, but splash still rules CQC.

Edit: I am not suggesting that the Sabot should have 100% no-scope accuracy while moving, or anything close to that. It makes sense to have a modest accuracy penalty for movement. But it makes very little sense to have a huge accuracy penalty simply for not using your scope, even while briefly standing still... In FPS games with 1-hit-kill snipers, that's great for balance, but the Sabot just isn't that kind of GODMODE sniper rifle like the AWP is.

necro on an old post, but I like this idea.

Give the beginning of scoping better accuracy, but not perfect until it's zoomed in all the way. SS already has some of the worst dps in the game (rightfully so though), so why would it hurt to give them a little tool to help hit in CQC a bit_

[Moreapples]

make no-scope viable plz