It's time to really have some respect in yourself and look at the future.
Cameron Kerby said:
Wall of texts aside, it has obviously taken a different direction since the original videos. However, we still intend for Hawken to be playable on a wide range of computers, not just ones with high-end hardware. And possibly even weaker computers/devices with the help of Gaikai.
Yes, it took a life of its own once the popularity were confirmed. Anyone with a working brain knows that the 360 is eight years old and that PC are increasing in sales exponentially. There's no rocket science to figure it out. Wall text aside, the game itself, your creation demanded technology and demanded a change in events.
With all due respect I think you guys should review your achievement on what your game achieved. You guys are not stupid and retarded to gimp your game for those old museum consoles. Your game achieved many awards and merits for the intensive graphics. Why back off now_ Why go shy and gimp the game on those old junks_ Makes zero sense to gimp and make the game retarded on the 360 or PS3 hardware. Your game, yes you know that game called Hawken, heralded Gaikai, the GTX 690 and Origin computer software.
Why you want to gimp your amazing game on those museum boxes of the 360 and the PS3_ With all sincerity current consoles can FUCK OFF for all that I care (PS3 and 360). If people want quality they have to find ways to acquire it. Why slap the PC community in the face again_ Why not deliver the game on the PS4 and the 720. It's around the corner and it will support Unreal engine 4_ There's Live and Gaikai for that. Use those resources. Think ahead like those who where doing Planet Side II. They are not gimping the game on the old hardware since they know the consequences and impact on their design.
Why the fuck you want to ruin your game when other people like those who are doing Planet Side II want to keep the standard and quality high. Hell you outperformed them and you competed with them wining on their own turf. Why go dumb now_ Why_ Don't destroy what you already achieved with hard sacrifice. Don't cut people expectation off with those motherfucking old consoles.
To face the future, takes courage. Do you have what it takes to make the step_ I think your team does.
Believe on what you where achieved and start believe on what people believe. We believed in you because you have the courage to step up. We don't need more losers to quit just because MS showed a keg of money. Have the balls to believe on your job. Your job worth more than you can ever imagine. At least live to your own fucking merits and expectations. You already earned them. Once you grow older you will look yourself in the mirror with pride and achievement instead of being a gulag with tons of money slapping individuals who deposited faith on your high standards.
I have a fucking broken clavicle and you see me teaching differential equations and integral equations on tutor classes. I don't cry or beg for mercy. I test myself to the limit and believe on what I have in front of me. I still draw with immense pain. I have to wake up and feel my body weak in the morning again. But you see, I don't quit. I try to craft a future for myself and a future for my plans in a doctoral degree in parametric architecture and computer animation.
You guys have the fucking balls to come up with an amazing idea, you are now the voice of an industry that is plummeting down. People in youtube writes "DON'T FUCK THIS ONE UP". Can you hear what many of us are trying to say_ Do I have to write more loaded words to make you see what you already achieved_ Really_ Please, look all you achieved up to now and see all the merits you already made in a short time, without even releasing a single game. Look at what already earned. So now ambition is strong enough to destroy all those years of hard work and days without sleep_
Sometimes your attitudes of doubt on yourselves deeply piss me off....
I have friends that play games on museum box PCs. Supporting old hardware is something that more games need to do. Consoles are old hardware too
Old consoles can fuck off, period.
There's a difference right now. You have Gaikai and Live to play the game on full glory. You can do it without any console. Second the game quality is what matters. Yes, people have to make sacrifices in order to progress. Is there any reason to not upgrade_ Is there any reason to not see the future_ Is there any reason to wait two more years supporting eight years old hardware_
FUCK NO.
I have the right to put sincerity in my words. I don't need to fault the respect of any developer in here. However I don't tolerate lack of faith and doubt. We are in this mess because we don't ask more from ourselves. We give in to the greatest bidder faulting respect on ourselves. We need to have pride. We need to achieve and excel on what we love to do. We have just one life to do it.
What this world will be if we don't put passion on the things we love to do_ Tell me. Is it a fault of respect to expect more from people who are capable doing much more_ I speak my sincere words. There's no intend to be harsh. However I'm frank and blunt. So all the faith I have should be drown away because someone have doubts in their dreams_ The dreams they crafted for themselves_ Hell, we all believe in them because they are capable to make this happen. They are capable of much more.
So you consider that a fault of respect_
You don't know how much I respect talent and dedication. However I can't cope with doubt and lack of faith.
"Higgs particles where theory fifty years ago, today they are a reality"............
who gives a flying rats ass if its on console or not just play the pc version im not a super computer nerd i dont know shit about computers or if it would gimp the game if it was on both but i do know both sides bitch like twelve year girls in heat calm the fuck down everybody its not even out yet.
That you made a straight up comparison of memory between consoles and PCs suggests you're not full-bottle on the comparisons. For example, min requirements for Assassin's Creed Revelations on PC were 1.5GB of system RAM and 256mb of video - a lazy 2.5 times what consoles can handle. Other comparisons are even starker.
The most important thing for the devs here though is making sure that they can get a reasonable audience for their game. Then BF3 launched, Steam's hardware survey suggested that 85% of the 40-odd million gamers on the service did not meet minimum specs. Ie, a game that can run on PS3/360 (hell, a game that's surpassed by plenty on those platforms) had a userbase on Steam of 6-odd million people at launch. Let's double that because Steam doesn't equal PC gaming, but if you're tossing up between a 12-million (likely max) userbase of PC gamers with the kind of rigs you're talking about, and 120-million on the HD consoles (which also suffer from far less piracy), and blindly turning consoles down doesn't make a helluva lot of sense.
And Gaikai would leave out a huge proportion of the world who have substandard internet connections (including most of the US and Europe, let alone other places) - so that's hardly going to fix the 'limited audience' thing.
So someone asking for this on 360/PS3 isn't crazy, and particularly as we still don't know when they'll launch. And from the devs perspective, at around a 10 times larger audience without taking into account higher rates of piracy on PC, it's hardly a crazy thing to consider. Likely the greatest return to investment would be to get it on current-gen _and_ next-gen consoles, but that would require the necessary investment for the port (it'd likely generate a good return, but you gotta have money/resources to make money/resources).
Of course, it'll take extra work to port it, and it may well be worth waiting until the next go-'round of consoles - I personally want it on console, but I'll happily wait until PS4/Xbox720 - because I prefer to play my action games without being stuck using an office productivity interface (horses for courses of course - a lot of people love playing their shooters like they play their spreadsheets, and everyone should enjoy what they enjoy ) - and yes, Xpadder's there for single-player, but a gamepad in MP would be at a ridiculously unfair advantage.
Stereotype PC elitist, stop giving enthusiasts a bad name. You should change your name to motor mechanic, perhaps more fitting with your rectal intellect.
That you made a straight up comparison of memory between consoles and PCs suggests you're not full-bottle on the comparisons. For example, min requirements for Assassin's Creed Revelations on PC were 1.5GB of system RAM and 256mb of video - a lazy 2.5 times what consoles can handle. Other comparisons are even starker.
Yes because consoles are ten times weaker than current generation PCs.
Any generic jackass with no IQ can figure this out. There's no need to have prior knowledge on computer hardware or any basics on common sense. The exclusion of hardware only forces developers to lower their standards and lower their scope within thier game. When your intention is to launch your first game, you have to make it your presentation card. You don't gimp your game just to be played by many. You have to test yourself proving what you can do and what are your capabilities.
This imbecile idea of making a reputation on a first game trying to suggest an immense audience when you are not on the map is pure nonsense. You have to built up a reputation and quality just to put your name out there. Many users approved with a high degrees of success the concept in Hawken. Many users are expecting a game for medium and high end machines. There's no problem having a wide spectrum of different hardware. However it's incredibly stupid to develop a game for consoles that are eight years old. The time and energy investment is shifted toward optimization instead of game design and proof of concept.
The constraints are imposed with the intention to have a quick audience ambition. Trying to pull all the eggs in one basket is just stupid. You simply try to invest effort putting your game out there instead of widening your reach. It is not logical to pretend a huge revenue when you have to provide how worthy you are with your first game. Ambition can be the greatest impairment with the first project.
Axe99 said:
The most important thing for the devs here though is making sure that they can get a reasonable audience for their game.
This is one of the dumbest ideas that comes from economists, financial guys and clueless business individuals who are not in touch with the whereabouts of the industry. The market behavior happens between players. If the game proves to be good, your audience start to grow. Trying to attack all the fields at once is incredibly awkward and out of touch within the reality of the team. When you want fame you have to make abstract your business. You have to provide something that other individuals doesn't have. In other words, a field of specialization.
Trying to reach audiences the way Apples does it with their developer philosophy doesn't apply to those who are developing for PC. The market works with different laws, behaviors and expectations. Yes, trying to put the game even in a game boy should be abandoned. It simply cuts the potential of the game and the potential of your concept. Trying to have success in one game shows the level of desperation. Reputation takes time and time takes patience. Being impatient is the worst hurdle against your development team. It makes you fall into common mistakes and common errors.
Business economical survival is a luxury that Adhesive doesn't have. They have to understand that they are not the underdogs or deep pocketed individuals who have all the luxury to suggest countless success in just one title. Arrogance may be the other issue and so stubbornness. Consoles should be reached on the next generation. This ambition of putting the game in every corner is insanely dumb because it cuts the potential of the initial game. The energy of making it better is shifted with the energy of marketing.
Let marketing be something done by players themselves. Let Youtube take charge of that and let other users move your game out there. Trying to battle all fronts in the market could be a big mistake.
Axe99 said:
Then BF3 launched, Steam's hardware survey suggested that 85% of the 40-odd million gamers on the service did not meet minimum specs. Ie, a game that can run on PS3/360 (hell, a game that's surpassed by plenty on those platforms) had a userbase on Steam of 6-odd million people at launch. Let's double that because Steam doesn't equal PC gaming, but if you're tossing up between a 12-million (likely max) userbase of PC gamers with the kind of rigs you're talking about, and 120-million on the HD consoles (which also suffer from far less piracy), and blindly turning consoles down doesn't make a helluva lot of sense.
But that way of thinking is retarded.
When you have consoles that will surpass the current ones you wait for them polishing. Right now Adhesive are acting as if they where in the position to argue sales, success and profits. First they have to finish off their game the way they had intended. Then they have to wait and see how people REACT to the game. Once you align your people then you make decisions of that sort. Trying to put a great game on those old junks due to the "less piracy" issue is clueless too. The game itself is a free to play and have policies way different than those found on the consoles.
Console peasants need to wait. They have to.
In time they will have a much better game. A polished game for the new consoles. How would you feel when Hawken is a good excuse to purchase your new PS4 or 720_ How would you feel when Hawken is the key to move new technology, hardware and new consoles into the market. It's a give and take. They have to risk. If they try to play safe they are going to throw away a great game.
For me is easy to embark my things and leave this game if they abandon their priorities. Planet Side II is in the other room waiting for new players providing what many of us want.
Axe99 said:
And Gaikai would leave out a huge proportion of the world who have substandard internet connections (including most of the US and Europe, let alone other places) - so that's hardly going to fix the 'limited audience' thing.
So you want to make your game suck because you want more people to play it_ So the intention to reach every corner should be the concern when this is your first game_ Seriously from where comes all these skewed ideas_ You see Adhesive is thinking as if this were their third or four game.
Adhesive should start to understand what is the meaning of being humble. They need to let users decide. They already proved to be worthy. Now it is up to us if we are going to adopt the game and see if they will reach that place. To be honest Battlefield 3 was a piece of shit with lots of bugs. Second the game itself leaved a lot to be desired. This is not the case for Hawken. Besides you can't compare that team with a team of six members.
Axe99 said:
So someone asking for this on 360/PS3 isn't crazy, and particularly as we still don't know when they'll launch.
It's incredibly stupid when your graphics look like this:
The imbecile idea of porting this into console should be history by now. This topic should be buried and never ever discussed. It makes no sense to cut the wings of a product that is highly acclaimed in GT, N4G, NeoGaff, IGN and so on. Trying to be quick putting the game on consoles will result on gimping the potential of your game. Yes, your product already reached popularity. However the ambition to connect quick money will hurt them on the long run.
Consoles right now are halting the progress of gaming and they are halting the intention to increase capability. Investors are weary and scared. They feel insecure in this future and hence they are trying to take the extra mileage of a hardware that was dead already two years ago. From any perspective, Hawken will have success, Hawken will make the dividends and Hawken will end up being a great game. However the current consoles is their greatest wall against progress.
If the game lands gimped it would be hard to have the same impact twice. The game itself made an insane impact because the graphics and the artistry where a tour the force. The game itself stroke a perfect balance treating a topic long missed in the industry. However if the ambition is to make a CoD success out of it then that imply gimping, quality lowering and simpleton design just for lemmings who enjoys hamster mazes and over simplified mechanics.
Axe99 said:
And from the devs perspective, at around a 10 times larger audience without taking into account higher rates of piracy on PC, it's hardly a crazy thing to consider.
This makes no sense since your game is free to play.
Axe99 said:
Likely the greatest return to investment would be to get it on current-gen _and_ next-gen consoles, but that would require the necessary investment for the port (it'd likely generate a good return, but you gotta have money/resources to make money/resources).
Yep, I was afraid of that. You are just trolling. However since I have a bone fracture, I can spend time feeding this troll.
The next generation of consoles provides more room for improvement, interest and further expansions. If you have the current software you will be forced to design for eight year old hardware when PCs right now are ten times more capable than consoles. You exclude yourself from Unreal Engine 4. You exclude yourself from a better API library. You exclude yourself from tessellation and graphical updates.
Yes you may design a game for your IOS and make it available for the other two Apple Ipads. You may port it on I phones and enjoy money with a simple idea. However that's not the philosophy this game suggested. Everything may change, Adhesive may gimp up their game and place them on those consoles. Adhesive may ruin their game and they may do it at their own illusion of a quick success. They are free to do so. They are free to fail and they are free to be guided by clueless financial guys who know jack shit about the gaming industry.
However their big success lies on the focusing of one Platform. Their success was market by their skills on their design, their visions and the improvement on the genre. Their design and game play are clean cut. Their graphics and animations are more than satisfactory. You put that on a 360 and you take away all the effort you employed on your great concept. The old consoles are old. If many users don't understand this we will continue swimming in this sea of the sameness for two more years.
Axe99 said:
Of course, it'll take extra work to port it, and it may well be worth waiting until the next go-'round of consoles - I personally want it on console, but I'll happily wait until PS4/Xbox720
Then be a good boy and wait. You will have a better polished game instead of a product with half of the potential.
I loved those days when I personally tried to be a smart ass with gifs.....such days.....^^.
Here's the problem, you provide a game with top quality. You sell your game with top quality then all of the sudden you want to gimp your game for the current consoles.
What the hell is wrong with you_ Sorry but it makes no sense at all....
I was actually directed in here from another site so I thought I'd join in on the fun - and the virgin post was just the harsh reality you need to wake up to every morning you get out of bed.
You see, the problem with PC elitists is they spend more time barking in forums rather than gaming because only 3-5 games ship every 5 years that take full advantage of their hardware (and then they have to upgrade again). I'm lucky to own all consoles, a PC and a Mac (because I work in the design industry)… that gives me the ability to play all the best games out there - mind you most of the better ones have been console exclusive. I personally don't play games on visual merit, I play them if they are enjoyable, that's what gaming is about. Battlefield 3 is a great example, one of the worst SP experiences I've had - developer spent too much time on the bells and whistles and made one of the most generic campaigns in gaming history. So stop carrying on like a blinded halfwit and go get some gaming under that big belt of yours.
I was actually directed in here from another site so I thought I'd join in on the fun - and the virgin post was just the harsh reality you need to wake up to every morning you get out of bed.
I'm having fun too. Meh, I'm a bit bored, why not feed another clueless troll....
GasClown said:
You see, the problem with PC elitists is they spend more time barking in forums rather than gaming because only 3-5 games ship every 5 years that take full advantage of their hardware (and then they have to upgrade again).
Then why you spend your time trolling in here_ Besides, the industry is on hold because investors are trying to overextend the life of the current consoles. The life expectancy is five to six years. However the current market incorporated casual users. The over extend of a generation hurts the industry and hurts the progress on current project.
GasClown said:
I'm lucky to own all consoles, a PC and a Mac (because I work in the design industry)… that gives me the ability to play all the best games out there -
And_
GasClown said:
mind you most of the better ones have been console exclusive. I personally don't play games on visual merit, I play them if they are enjoyable, that's what gaming is about. Battlefield 3 is a great example, one of the worst SP experiences I've had
Then you don't need a PC for that. Hell, you don't even need a console, since you can enjoy games on the 3DS. ^^.
So the visual merit is not important anymore or is just an excuse to justify conformism_ Either way, you have to understand that the Unreal Engine 4 was designed not only to improve the visual merits of games. But the visual merit and the combination of game play and design championed Hawken. Shall we drop the quality all of the sudden_
GasClown said:
So stop carrying on like a blinded halfwit and go get some gaming under that big belt of yours.
I'm having fun too. Meh, I'm a bit bored, why not feed another clueless troll....
I didn't come in here to troll - it's clear you're the one that's hi-jacked this thread with your elitist scum. I didn't get much of a chance to read your dribble but from the few lines I read of the colossus posts it's apparent you think you're smart yet ironically you're carrying on like a moron.
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Besides, the industry is on hold because investors are trying to overextend the life of the current consoles. The life expectancy is five to six years. However the current market incorporated casual users. The over extend of a generation hurts the industry and hurts the progress on current project.
Unfortunate (for you) that the lion's share of gamers play on console these days and less than 5% of the PC market don't own a rig which can run a recent game at full spec so you'll just have to live with the drought of hi-spec gaming and stop complaining about it so much.
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And_
Well, isn't that what gaming is about… playing games_ Obviously too dimwitted to even comprehend that_ Do I really need to elaborate or are you too thick_
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So the visual merit is not important anymore or is just an excuse to justify conformism_
No, visuals are not the be all end all. Just like music, art and design - often the simplest creations are the best and most memorable whether aurally or visually.
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Son, you considered that an insult_ Really_
Son_ Sorry daddy! Wait… my father's not a moron! And just for the record, it wasn't an insult, just read between the lines… and it's rephrased above, oh the irony, you're just too blind to see it!
But don't worry. I'm a bit pissed with my broken clavicle. Once I get better, I'll continue studying mathematics. Being in bed for two weeks is not fun at all. Besides you are welcome to continue trolling so I can have some entertainment for myself.
GasClown said:
it's clear you're the one that's hi-jacked this thread with your elitist scum.
And is clear that you are the one who took it seriously when all the forum knows me for the joke we had on the debate of consoles versus PCs. Sorry but you are just taking this to your heart. I came only to simply make a point. However who came to troll_ You. Who continue trolling_ You.
GasClown said:
I didn't get much of a chance to read your dribble but from the few lines I read of the colossus posts it's apparent you think you're smart yet ironically you're carrying on like a moron.
Someone with the name Gas Clown, who comes to troll and to boot he calls someone else a moron_ Sorry but as I said, intelligence is a luxury you don't have, son.
GasClown said:
Unfortunate (for you) that the lion's share of gamers play on console these days and less than 5% of the PC market don't own a rig which can run a recent game at full spec so you'll just have to live with the drought of hi-spec gaming and stop complaining about it so much.
Wait, whose carrying on like a moron_ Say again_ with 600 dollars you can mount a decent rig. At least if you are going to lecture me and call me a dumb ass moron at least try to mount up a good excuse. Otherwise you will look like one. And believe me, you don't even know how to troll.....
GasClown said:
Well, isn't that what gaming is about… playing games_ Obviously too dimwitted to even comprehend that_ Do I really need to elaborate or are you too thick_
Why Crytek invest money on Crytek engine 3_
Why Epic invest money on Unreal Engine 4_
Why Epic is lobbing for better hardware specs on the next generation of consoles_
Why we have procedural skeletal animation, why we have parallax occlusive mapping_
Why Unigine supports tessellation_
Why we have depth of field, bukeh and new lighting technologies_
Yes because these companies are dimwitted and they don't know what games are_ Or do they have some clue on what games should be_ Or fun should be restricted to old eight years old consoles_ So we should blame these individuals because they are dimwitted pushing technology further or should we downgrade Hawken for the PS3 and 360 while a generic troll entertains me during my recuperation_
So, yeah_....
GasClown said:
No, visuals are not the be all end all. Just like music, art and design - often the simplest creations are the best and most memorable whether aurally or visually.
Graphics depends on animation, illumination, texturing and modeling. Visuals are an essential part of any game. Visuals and game play comes hand to hand. Destructible environments add game play, realism adds immersion, and simple ideas add depth. However the gaming industry caters progress.
Since many investors are shy due to the economical recession they are very dimwitted and short sighted if they pretend to overextend games that look the same for a span of ten years. Visual and the smooth frame rate have direct impact over the game play and feel of any game. The art design in Hawken is what motivated many industries be interested in the game.
GasClown said:
Son_ Sorry daddy! Wait… my father's not a moron! And just for the record, it wasn't an insult, just read between the lines… and it's rephrased above, oh the irony, you're just too blind to see it!
There's no fun humiliating someone who has no skill trolling and seems disarmed by the way he argues. It's too easy. It's not my purpose anyway.
What bothers me is when some retards in the industry pretend to know more than those who make games. When investors and publishers try to convince developers to put their product in every device they cut the game potential and cut the development time. These imbeciles and morons pretend to know more than those who make games. They interrupt the ideas with business strategies than the task of finishing a great game.
"These partnerships give us the opportunity to reach the mainstream audience," said Mark Long, CEO of Meteor Entertainment. "The visually disruptive, cinematic graphics are the first thing everyone sees with Hawken. We know there's an audience out here that will want to try this game out and now they'll be able to play it beyond the traditional PC."
I loved those days when I personally tried to be a smart ass with gifs.....such days.....^^.
I post gifs and funny images because I'm trying to deflect the frustration your comments give me.
Mech Mechanic said:
Here's the problem, you provide a game with top quality. You sell your game with top quality then all of the sudden you want to gimp your game for the current consoles.
Where are you getting the idea that we are gimping our game for consoles_ I clearly stated that Hawken on consoles was on the agenda ORIGINALLY... not currently. We announced months ago that Hawken will be a PC exclusive, and yet you're still spamming these boards ranting about consoles almost every day.
Mech Mechanic said:
What the hell is wrong with you_ Sorry but it makes no sense at all....
I'm going to tell you for the last time: You need to be more respectful on this forum. I'm amazed we've put up with your trolling for as long as we have. Keep it up, and I will be banning you.
One topic that's been bothering me in this discussion is graphics. I'm sorry to disappoint, but we've never stated that Hawken was cutting-edge graphically. With a team of under 20 people, it would be an impossible task to make Hawken stand up to current benchmark titles strictly with graphics.
Where Hawken shines is aesthetics. Graphically, we're not exactly doing anything new.
So even though our game looks incredible, that doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't run on a weaker machine or even a console. And don't misunderstand me and think that means we're gimping our game. WE'RE NOT. SO RELAX.
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) - and yes, Xpadder's there for single-player, but a gamepad in MP would be at a ridiculously unfair advantage.
