54 replies to this topic

[andythebomb]

By body swapping I mean using the cash cosmetic parts shop to make your Sharp Shooter look like a CRT or Raider into a Sharp Shooter.

I have played against some one who had 3 mechs that were all identically skinned to be the Sharp Shooter.
Brawler, Raider and Sharp Shooter. he had a serious advantage because I never knew what was going to come flying out of his guns.

Do we the community want to allow this in competitive play_

What about a full team of identical looking mechs_

My main beef is with torso swapping due to it being the only real way to tell the various mechs apart.

*edit i spell a wordz

Edited by andythebomb, March 07 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[nokari]

That's the way cosmetics are meant to be used. There would be no point to having them being interchangeable or even buy them if people couldn't use them for any competitive playing. Deal with it.

You can always look at the scoreboard to tell what someone is using.

[Houruck]

I think it is even less deceptive in competitive play. I just do not like Hiefram chassis so much as the Assault and Bruiser parts.

[andythebomb]

nokari, on March 07 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

That's the way cosmetics are meant to be used. There would be no point to having them being interchangeable or even buy them if people couldn't use them for any competitive playing. Deal with it.

You can always look at the scoreboard to tell what someone is using.

So you think cosmetics should be used to trick your opponent and make him unable to acuetly predict what your weapon load out is_
If that's actually what you think they are meant to do then why would it be ok for them to only be bought with real money_
These aren't taunts or paint jobs.
Body swaps provide a real advantage when used strategically. If that is how they are intended then we are paying for power/tactical advantage.

As far as checking the score board goes they can just swap to a different identical mech. Hence my comment about the guy with 3 identical mechs it thru me for a loop having what looked like the same mech constantly swapping weapons and tactics in the midst of 5 other enemies players.

[Beemann]

Main chassis bits shouldn't be interchangeable. All other bits are fine. Have an infil with 'Zerker arms or an Assault with Bruiser legs, but removing the ability to identify mechs based on cash spent is just all kinds of wrong
There should be a certain level of user and viewer readability in a combat scenario that really isn't there right now

[nokari]

andythebomb, on March 07 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

So you think cosmetics should be used to trick your opponent and make him unable to acuetly predict what your weapon load out is_

Yes! Absolutely. It's called the element of surprise. Disguises are a basic strategy.

andythebomb, on March 07 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

If that's actually what you think they are meant to do then why would it be ok for them to only be bought with real money_

So you just want to buy arms and feet_ Is that really worth the money_ I don't think so.

andythebomb, on March 07 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

Body swaps provide a real advantage when used strategically. If that is how they are intended then we are paying for power/tactical advantage.

You don't get any power out of swapping mech parts, only surprise, which doesn't last long.

andythebomb, on March 07 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

As far as checking the score board goes they can just swap to a different identical mech. Hence my comment about the guy with 3 identical mechs it thru me for a loop having what looked like the same mech constantly swapping weapons and tactics in the midst of 5 other enemies players.

He can't swap in the middle of combat, only after being killed or running back to base (if it's a team match).

Edited by nokari, March 08 2013 - 02:34 AM.

[Ryuronin]

Look at the scoreboard. Teams aren't that big you should be able to remember the composition of the enemy team. A quick glance at it before you run into engage isn't very hard, what makes it easier is you can see peoples names from quite a distance off. Intelligence is a very valuable tool, the scoreboard gives you that tool make use of it. I like to be able to pick and choose chassis, especially if one looks alot better than the other. For example I like the look of the Raider, I think it would look awesome on my Sharpshooter with its massive Sabot and Slug. I am going to pay money to help support the game and change to that Chassis, the struts and such I don't care about as much because theyre not as noticeable.

[c0mad0r]

I want my Brawler to look like a Scout!

Honestly, it's not that difficult to see them shoot and determine what they have. Knowing whether it is an A,B or C class narrows down the choices somewhat and the firs time they fire their secondary you pretty much know what they are.

[nokari]

c0mad0r, on March 08 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

I want my Brawler to look like a Scout!

Honestly, it's not that difficult to see them shoot and determine what they have. Knowing whether it is an A,B or C class narrows down the choices somewhat and the firs time they fire their secondary you pretty much know what they are.

Exactly. If you're staring at a CR-T and suddenly hear a Slug shot and see a long tracer, you should know that it's a Sharpshooter instantly. If you see a Sharpshooter walking around with a TOW, you should know it's an Assault or CR-T. If the person doesn't know that, they should go to the Garage and review the weapons each mech carries.

[Beefsweat]

It's not that difficult to press Tab...

[TheChaffeemancer]

It places extra burden on your opponent to keep track of what you are, waiting till they shoot at you means that they shot at you, and you might be wholely unprepared to dodge appropriately. A sharpshooter only need that brief instant of you looking at the scoreboard to take off half your health. It's an advantage the sharpshooter got that he can only get through the x amount of dollars he spent. Kiwi's not going to say it's necessarily pay to win, but it is unfair that plopping money down can let you "disguise" yourself to fool other players.

It's especially unfair to newer players. They're already trying to learn the weapons/what each mech does, now they got what they thought were snipers splattering them with rocket shotguns. It can lead to frustrating and driving them away.

[andythebomb]

Yes you can easily press tab and see what people are using buy if all the a's have the same skin and b's and c's  your not going to know whether the mech you saw jet around the corner was a crt ss or raider.

Nothing stops players from swapping mechs every death. I don't want to have to stop and check the enemy team comp every time we get a kill. i should be able to tell what im fighting just buy looking.

I feel like I'm playing tf2 where all the scouts could be snipers and snipers scouts or league of legends where that alistar starts laying down singed's poison gas.

[MasterFALE]

First time I encountered this was a Scout masquerading as a Berzerker, it was appalling to discover flak cannon in place of SMC.

I admit I raged a little, then I realized how cheeky and awesome that was.

But if it really is an issue, make the data read-out on the HUD bigger. The name that appears over enemy mechs, put the model name in there and up the font size a point or two.

[Leviathon]

I think maybe for competitive tournaments and such it makes sense to limit cosmetic part swaps. I imagine competitive games would sometimes have other limitations on what mech combos you can run and such, makes sense they could choose to limit players from swapping torsos. But in pub games it's not such a big deal. It looks cool, people like customization, and it's how they make money that allows them to keep rolling out new content and patches which is a plus in my book.

[Beemann]

Leviathon, on March 08 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

I think maybe for competitive tournaments and such it makes sense to limit cosmetic part swaps. I imagine competitive games would sometimes have other limitations on what mech combos you can run and such, makes sense they could choose to limit players from swapping torsos. But in pub games it's not such a big deal. It looks cool, people like customization, and it's how they make money that allows them to keep rolling out new content and patches which is a plus in my book.

It really doesn't make sense to make the game more confusing for newbies. A lot of them already think you can 2hk C mechs, and that level 25's take half damage

[nokari]

MasterFALE, on March 08 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

But if it really is an issue, make the data read-out on the HUD bigger. The name that appears over enemy mechs, put the model name in there and up the font size a point or two.

I don't think anyone wants more vision obscuring text on their screens.

[Tomino_sama]

Legit



I find that the Projectile Graphics and Noises from the Mech Loadout closing in on me is enough to give away any Tricky Pilot hiding his Loadout from me.

Edited by Tomino_sama, March 08 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Majic12]

Since competitive play should be as neutral as it gets, changing chassis parts shouldn't be allowed. You don't see a brazilian world cup player  running around in a german jersey in the finals. I vouch for keeping it as clean as possible there. Once you're approaching that level of skilled matches, even the tenth of a second that it takes to realize "not a bruiser", could give someone an advantage which is not skill based and therefore not necessary in my opinion.

[Tomino_sama]

andythebomb, on March 08 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

I feel like I'm playing tf2

You should be trying to Identify the Weapon not the Mech type.

_ how is this like TF2 _  In that game you cannot mix and match Character Models as we do in Hawken.

Regarding TAB

1. You Tab Quickly this takes a fraction of a second
2. You note his NAME.

The Mech name is irrelevant as each mech has 3 weapon loadouts, you can never guess the internals and as for his Equipment_ Is there a Turret Shooting you_ Yes thats that question answered. Also I could have 3 freds. A level 1, A level 25 (agility) and a level 15 (defense), all with different loadouts. How will you know then when I switch between my Freds_

As for the Threat of a SS dressing as a Fred. It costs real money to change all those parts. That is a way of supporting the game so why deny that_ In any case if you know the pilots name, you see it through a wall and know what he is up to, regardless of Mech type.


Once there are 10 more Mechs in HAwken do you really think that you can memorise all those combinations and honestly say it should be easier visually_

I look at the Mech firing and Instantly can tell the weapon. There are less weapons than Mechs, so it's easier to identify the weapon either visually or by listening.

Its not hard to tell the difference between a Sabot and a Hellfire. If we could Change Secondaries, you suggestion would add so much text to the screen. I'd rather forget the whole thing and be surprised to find out as we face each other.

[Tomino_sama]

Majic12, on March 08 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

....could give someone an advantage which is not skill based and therefore not necessary in my opinion.

I think that if you cannot tell what you are being shot with..... that is skill related.

When I have played "competitively" I can tell you one thing. It won't matter what your Mech looks like. The enemy won't see you long enough to identify you any way. You Kill or be Killed. lol

Honestly you all must have you Graphics turned off and play muted to not taste, smell and feel the difference between HEAT and EOC.

The Dev's did a bang up job on the GFX and Audio for Weapons and so this seems a little like huff over nothing.


Can you honestly say that you need to see the Mech to know what it is shooting at you_


Ok I can switch my Parts back to normal for a competition but that is so Dull. Next you will need to buy a RED skin for everyone on the RED team and a BLUE skin for everyone on the BLUE team. Just so it's "fair" After all with all those Grey mechs "Who knows what I'm shooting at Fuzzy Bunnies_"

....Further Destroying that whole "Sentium" and "Prosk" thing we have in the game!!

Veteran Pilots are more likely to have retrofitted after a tour of Duty than not according to the Lore. Sentium are Suits and Prosk are not it seems. So what Team Sentium rocks Vanilla Mechs and Team Prosk has the most Vile Skins possible_

who cares what the target looks like though, seriously_
Just wondering if we are playing Hawken or Talken