92 replies to this topic

[m3talc0re]

We can only hope Marty. Like I said before, I'm hoping for the best, but I'm still expecting the worst. We'll see soon I guess. I'm hoping this will at least stop them from slamming into walls/floors constantly.

[didactic]

Aims, on April 08 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

But... half the fun of Hellfires is learning the angles they need to be fired at in order to curve them around geometry_

This sounds like it would make them even easier to use than they currently are.

I hope this discussion is still active because after playing Hawken for the first time only a couple weeks ago I had a bad first impression of lockon with hellfire.  The current behavior and flight path of locked on missiles is curiously awful.   Most of the map conditions nullify success with lock on fire and (this is the main point of my post) offer no real compensation within the bounds of player control.  What would make them wayyyy more fun and open them up to player skill development is if the arch and turn were substantially relaxed so that instead of just ejecting and then zooming into an obstacle, it can be compensated with aim.  If a mech retreats behind a wall while i am in the moment to fire locked on hellfire, i can then choose to lead way more than normal as well as follow back if i want to arch in a direction from behind him.  By aiming further left or right, i can control and predict how the locked on missiles will arch and where they will land.  Other games did this, I think its very much worth considering and a worthy advantage to those who can do it correctly.

edit:  just finished reading the other replies.. seems most everybody else here reached the same conclusion, shared the bummer experience of lock on, and had the same idea to let their curvature be influenced by leading or following the shot.  sorry to restate all the obvious and already said,  free bump anyway.  i hope they tweak hellfire to be a fun and fair weapon with lock on.  my bruiser is usually outclassed in many situations because TOW has repeatedly given level 1 crt heavy clutch material.

lockon requires every single time an additional action performed by the player (aiming and pressing lockon button) then must complete a delay (eternity in a heated battle) then launch with very low likelihood of hitting the target.  Firing in a straight line w no lockon is as others pointed out, diminished in effectiveness because the damage divides by how many peripheral environmental entities absord the missles because of the spread.

compare to tow,  first action is simply shoot.  thats it.  from barrel exit to detonation, all can be performed before the hellfire even finishes locking on target.  poor bruiser :[

Right now, no matter which extreme i lead or follow with lock on, it always rushes into a fixed and straightening path and the velocity takes the missiles in a line towards an environmental obstacle.  It's boring and makes me feel limited as a player because lock on doesnt always have to be cheap.. it can have its own manual reward system for good players.  Wanted had a bullet time scene that showed how bullets had a controlled arch.  Hell, Id even go for laser guided hellfire that chased your crosshair (this is most awesome implementation of controlling missiles to get them to curve around objects and it was most certainly demanding the player be at least average skill to be consistently successful with it), that way you wouldnt even need lock on anymore.  the missiles could even travel faster than they currently do to ramp up its difficulty in execution.

I am also open to appropriate balance counters to this like an equipment that intercepts missiles or certain designated explosive projectiles.  I m not trying to propose lock on changes in a vacuum so that people can say "no fair" or "bad idea" because it would break or ruin something or become unfair because it made matches lopsided.  The game world is rich with ways to make so many things work as well as having other components to balance them.

Edited by didactic, April 19 2013 - 09:31 PM.

[Akaon]

The new hellfires are way better .

[Jintonic]

and i just cant hit anyone with it

[Akaon]

Jintonic, on April 20 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

and i just cant hit anyone with it

I'd have to guess you're doing it wrong then . Lock, then shoot!

[YellerBill]

Akaon, on April 20 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Lock, then shoot!

Indeed!

[m3talc0re]

I can't hit sh*t with them either. They're stupid easy to dodge now. I was above a guy, locked on and fired down on him and they missed. I don't think he was even boosting, just walking. I dunno, I've got mixed feelings on them right now.

[N3V3Rmore]

They seem to not hit walls/floor so often but they do it anyway.

Performing tricks is easier,however it depends on the terrain.

Due to the nerfed damage it's not so rewarding to dumbfire them anymore.

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.

And is it just me,or my rocketeer overheats more often_Does someone have the numbers on that pre-patch,so i can compare them to the current situation_

[Akaon]

N3V3Rmore, on April 21 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

They seem to not hit walls/floor so often but they do it anyway.

Performing tricks is easier,however it depends on the terrain.

Due to the nerfed damage it's not so rewarding to dumbfire them anymore.

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.

And is it just me,or my rocketeer overheats more often_Does someone have the numbers on that pre-patch,so i can compare them to the current situation_

How is dumbfiring less rewarding now_ I honestly can't imagine why you would say that.

Overall, they perform better imo, perhaps slightly worse for close combat using lockon.

Main issue with them is that the lockon is a joke and you'll see anything between 1 and 7 missiles not homing, unless you time the shot perfectly, really really hope they'll fix this at some point. (waiting before shooting just lowers you dps further, it doesn't need this on top of that)

[m3talc0re]

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.
I've noticed this happening, too. You lock on, fire and if they're close enough, the entire volley will just fly right around them. Lock on is pretty much useless close range.

[YellerBill]

m3talc0re, on April 21 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.
I've noticed this happening, too. You lock on, fire and if they're close enough, the entire volley will just fly right around them. Lock on is pretty much useless close range.

If you're going for lock at close range, trust me, don't bother. Just dumb-fire the rockets at the enemy's feet.

[N3V3Rmore]

Akaon, on April 21 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

N3V3Rmore, on April 21 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

They seem to not hit walls/floor so often but they do it anyway.

Performing tricks is easier,however it depends on the terrain.

Due to the nerfed damage it's not so rewarding to dumbfire them anymore.

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.

And is it just me,or my rocketeer overheats more often_Does someone have the numbers on that pre-patch,so i can compare them to the current situation_

How is dumbfiring less rewarding now_ I honestly can't imagine why you would say that.

Well,due to the lowered damage and the assumption that not all of the rockets will hit the target,dumbfiring is not so rewarding,though probably that's the way it should be,with the rocketeer being a mid-long range mech.

YellerBill, on April 21 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

m3talc0re, on April 21 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.
I've noticed this happening, too. You lock on, fire and if they're close enough, the entire volley will just fly right around them. Lock on is pretty much useless close range.

If you're going for lock at close range, trust me, don't bother. Just dumb-fire the rockets at the enemy's feet.

I meant to fire them without a lock in cqc.The enemy mech is so close,that it's rubbing it's cockpit against yours.Seekers go on the left side of the enemy,hellfires go on the right,none of them hitting whatsoever.

[Akaon]

N3V3Rmore, on April 22 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Akaon, on April 21 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

N3V3Rmore, on April 21 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

They seem to not hit walls/floor so often but they do it anyway.

Performing tricks is easier,however it depends on the terrain.

Due to the nerfed damage it's not so rewarding to dumbfire them anymore.

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.

And is it just me,or my rocketeer overheats more often_Does someone have the numbers on that pre-patch,so i can compare them to the current situation_

How is dumbfiring less rewarding now_ I honestly can't imagine why you would say that.

Well,due to the lowered damage and the assumption that not all of the rockets will hit the target,dumbfiring is not so rewarding,though probably that's the way it should be,with the rocketeer being a mid-long range mech.

YellerBill, on April 21 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

m3talc0re, on April 21 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Another thing that i noticed (even before patch) if a mech is standing right infront of me,the seekers and hellfires seem to go around him on his left and right side respectively....Now i know they were meant for mid-long range,but that's just stupid.
I've noticed this happening, too. You lock on, fire and if they're close enough, the entire volley will just fly right around them. Lock on is pretty much useless close range.

If you're going for lock at close range, trust me, don't bother. Just dumb-fire the rockets at the enemy's feet.

I meant to fire them without a lock in cqc.The enemy mech is so close,that it's rubbing it's cockpit against yours.Seekers go on the left side of the enemy,hellfires go on the right,none of them hitting whatsoever.

With the current locking system, you're NEVER guaranteed to hit all your missiles .