143 replies to this topic

[pseulak]

+1 for the AA on Last Eco HF murderfest. I do feel a little dirty using the Rocketeer there, but it also feels like that map heavily favors anything with Air Dynamics tuning. Being able to get up and over that bumpy terrain is really tasty even in a Zerker. It also seems to make the other team's HF seem easier to dodge by dropping out of flight behind rocks and corners.

On Bazaar, the eastern and northern areas on the map are also HF induced scrapyards on most of the TDMs I play.

I'm not sure Hellfires are OP, but I think Hellfires + Air Dynamics makes them OP in many situations. Its too bad both HF mechs also have AD tuning. Maybe some balance needs to be induced there.

[Gorbachev]

Second idea is horrible and would make hellfires twice more strong and annoying

[Aregon]

the Hellfires pre-invasion was probably their best era yet. Turn back to those and you should see less people using them.

[LU0P10]

Get rid of the lock on...
This has probably been suggested already... make the missiles guided by reticle (=as painted with laser). You could even make some kind of trick shots but player should actually aim/guide his shot to it's target

[CookieTheory]

I wouldn't say the hellfires are an issue per say since they've always been annoying to deal with. The issue is that everyone understood how they could be exploited in maps like last eco or bazzar. Games tends to get boring quickly when there's no diversity. Going up against a team of infiltrators, scouts, raiders well basically spamming any mechs would be as equally irritating.

[ChubaMecha]

how about having counter items to hellfires_ like a flare that attracts all hellfires, in sight, for a certain amount of time before they burn out. just a suggestion

[Aregon]

ChubaMecha, on November 18 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

how about having counter items to hellfires_ like a flare that attracts all hellfires, in sight, for a certain amount of time before they burn out. just a suggestion

We got those, they are called Holograms MK. [font="courier new, courier, monospace"][font=comic sans ms,cursive]III[/font][/font]

[eth0]

Aregon, on November 18 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

ChubaMecha, on November 18 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

how about having counter items to hellfires_ like a flare that attracts all hellfires, in sight, for a certain amount of time before they burn out. just a suggestion

We got those, they are called Holograms MK. III

Doesn't that only work when a hologram is placed first_

[ShadowGTR]

LU0P10, on November 18 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Get rid of the lock on...
This has probably been suggested already... make the missiles guided by reticle (=as painted with laser). You could even make some kind of trick shots but player should actually aim/guide his shot to it's target

Either this ^^^, or when you lock on, a circle appears around your locked target and another around your crosshair. You then have to keep your "tracking circle" overlapped with your locked target's "target circle". The closer the overlap, the better the hellfire missiles will track. However, if you can't keep your tracking circle over the target circle (lets say it has to overlap at least 50% to start tracking), the missiles will fly straight in the direction they were last going before the tracking was lost. The max turning angle of the hellfires should be shallow to prevent crazy arcs. The mech who fired the hellfire missiles cannot fire again until the salvo that is tracking either hits something or are disarmed by pressing the fire button again. Disarming renders them useless, and they harmlessly poof out of existence, similar to the max range on the Corsair MIRV.

Now you might say "If the targeted mech is really far away, keeping the tracking circle over the target circle will be easy!" Yes, it will. However, if there is that much distance between the shooter and the target, there should be cover between the two. And if there isn't....well, then the target is likely to be hit.

At least, with this change, the hellfires would be less "fire and forget" and actually require a bit more effort, especially if the target gets closer and its target circle is moving around more.

[zaepp]

First of all I don't think ADH would completely change the mechanics of HF, because
a.) they most likely want a low-skill weapons system for lesser talented players and players with high ping and
b.) spare any ideas for alternate mechanics like mininuke/multi-lock-on/laser-guide for future content releases.

Step 1:
I like the idea of a (visual) warning when somebody tries to get a lock.

Further suggestions for a more conventional approach:
- simply roll-back HF-behavior to pre-Invasion
- simply roll-back Seeker to pre-Invasion
- tweak HFs dmg / RoF / heat-generation a bit
- nerf Air Dynamics / Fuel Converter a bit
- nerf Bruisers F a bit more
- change the layout of LAST ECOs AA slightly

Edited by zaepp, November 18 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[flimsy]

I like both ideas, but I think the implementation of the second would have to be paired with an additional drawback of some kind. Maybe increase the lock on time to be slightly shorter than the retire time, so that players really need to rely on the missiles locking after being fired rather than just having that capacity as an added option. It would be a really interesting weapon if the power of it was dependent on balancing tricky timings.

[ChubaMecha]

how about if we get different tracking weapons in the future that require more skill. that way "less" skilled players will learn to use different types of weapons and eventually move on from tracking weapons

[Fstroke]

flimsy, on November 18 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I like both ideas, but I think the implementation of the second would have to be paired with an additional drawback of some kind. Maybe increase the lock on time to be slightly shorter than the retire time, so that players really need to rely on the missiles locking after being fired rather than just having that capacity as an added option. It would be a really interesting weapon if the power of it was dependent on balancing tricky timings.

I think the drawback would be the fact that you have to remain exposed in order to use the post fire lock mechanic.

[Deadly_Peanut]

Hellfires are FINE as is.   I drive a bruiser as main and 1/2 to 2/3 of my hellfires miss because of ducks or natural motion of the target.

as for the OP's 'wall of text'

uh oh.....

Edited by Deadly_Peanut, November 18 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[Cyclohexane]

I mostly like the ideas of shooting them down and slowing them slightly.  A warning light would be ok, but it may be annoying.  Having them lock on after fire seems like it would be easier to use as well (and prevent close range).

How about a 1 slot internal (or item) that allows you to shoot a flare every 30 seconds or so causing the hellfires to miss completely.  That would allow you to close the distance at the cost of an internal.

[Deadly_Peanut]

palad1ne, on November 17 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

And cmon man, don't tell us that its so hard with a super fast scout to dodge incoming Hellfires. This would be pathetic by all respect.

scouts dodge my hellfires all the time... talk about OP... yeeeshhhhh... i hate those little face hugging suckers.

How many scouts are at the number 1 or number 2 position in the TDM winning team line up_  A light that routinely gets first place in TDM is certainly OP.

[Bazookagofer]

ChubaMecha, on November 17 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

i and heatseeker needs its auto seek nerf too (way to easy hit targets and they are really really good)

As far as I am concerned my seekers lock on to targets only if my reticule was on the target so I do not think this weapons needs a nerf because you have to aim for lock.
I do think though that hellfire rework would be a good thing(We all know this not going to happen. Devs are still obsessed about keeping tech's sticky beam). Make skill ceiling harder etc. Also having the warning when your getting locked on would be just dumb.

Still personally i think the devs should work more on the server issues. I stopped playing this game because I cannot get into a fight without massive frame drops(No it not my PC the game worked awesome right after ascension and after invasion everything went to hell) and massive lag. It ridiculous.

Edited by Bazookagofer, November 18 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[ChubaMecha]

Bazookagofer, on November 18 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

ChubaMecha, on November 17 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

i and heatseeker needs its auto seek nerf too (way to easy hit targets and they are really really good)

As far as I am concerned my seekers lock on to targets only if my reticule was on the target so I do not think this weapons needs a nerf because you have to aim for lock.
I do think though that hellfire rework would be a good thing(We all know this not going to happen. Devs are still obsessed about keeping tech's sticky beam). Make skill ceiling harder etc. Also having the warning when your getting locked on would be just dumb.

Still personally i think the devs should work more on the server issues. I stopped playing this game because I cannot get into a fight without massive frame drops(No it not my PC the game worked awesome right after ascension and after invasion everything went to hell) and massive lag. It ridiculous.

i agree with this and for now i think im going to take a break

[M4st0d0n]

This thread is a joke. After a year of powershot, healtorch and blitz poorly designed mechanics, of EOC and shield spamming, then now its hellfire mechanics who's at stake. And all of this by a bunch of guys who never used it because Rocketeer gameplay was bad for MMR. I hope there'll be some more HAB for you to enlighten the devs while they carry on on designing weird maps and buffing Seekers to make Hawken unplayable.

[Sylhiri]

zaepp, on November 18 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

First of all I don't think ADH would completely change the mechanics of HF, because
a.) they most likely want a low-skill weapons system for lesser talented players and players with high ping and...

And from that day onwards Hawken was never balanced again~

The End.