143 replies to this topic

[Xacius]

palad1ne, on November 17 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

First time I couldn't agree with xacius. I think the hellfire lock on fix was urgently needed for the rocketeer. The times where little OP scout and zerker buggerz can easy fuzzy bunny us c mechs apart is now over.
And cmon man, don't tell us that its so hard with a super fast scout to dodge incoming Hellfires. This would be pathetic by all respect.

A tank is a tank because its a tank.

Good day

A tank is a tank because it's a tank, but what happens when that tank can fly backwards at boost-like speeds and doesn't have to aim to land its shots_ Then it's more like a plane with auto-fire missiles that take away from game depth by removing the requirement to fuzzy bunny aim.

After the most recent patch, it's actually quite hard to dodge Hellfires with any mech, even a Scout (and balancing one mech around the fastest mech in the game is a bad, bad design decision.  You say it's easy to dodge hellfires in a Scout, but what about a Sharpshooter or Grenadier_  That argument falls to pieces if you consider 90% of the other mechs in the game).  In a circumstance where I'm facing the Rocketeer that is launching the missiles, and I know exactly where they're coming from, I can dodge just fine.  In a circumstance where I've been targeted from behind or the side, and I don't know exactly where they're coming from, I cannot effectively dodge by the time the Hellfires reach me.  If I'm lucky, I can use the small 1-2 second window given by the "WARNING" flash to dodge behind a corner (which only works if I've properly guessed the direction from which they were fired).  

If you were to read and process my original post, wherein I outlined upgrades and modifications that would actually give Hellfire users more options with a higher skill ceiling to boot, I think you'd agree that it's a step in the right direction.

Edited by Xacius, November 18 2013 - 01:16 AM.

[HubbaBubba9849]

I think it would help if you couldn't just aim any old way after locking on. It's a little bit ridiculous that you can lock on, do a 180 spin and fire, and your hellfires will just flip a quick u-turn and head for the target anyway.

[Xacius]

Nept, on November 18 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

Xacius, on November 17 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Step 2: Allow fired missiles to begin tracking during travel time, not just before.  Hellfire user A fires missiles.  1 second passes and missiles are sent past the target.  Lock-on is acheived, and the missiles curve back around to hit the target.  

Absolutely not.  Anyone who played Planetside 1 and faced the original striker knows how obscenely overpowered this mechanic becomes.  It drastically reduces evasion time and renders escape extremely unlikely.

I'm still partial to the laser-guided system.  Unfortunately, if the developers are intent upon the auto-tracking (because newbies buy them), then that's out the window.

Then reduce the travel speed of unlocked Hellfires to compensate for the additional locking capabilities, make the lock-on time after launch take a couple seconds, and prompt the targeted player with warning.  Additionally, make the post-launch tracking a fair bit weaker than regular lock-ons.  It'd give the weapon more utility, at the very least.

Edited by Xacius, November 18 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[dEd101]

Alternatively revert back to ascension version. I had no complaints back then.

As far as hellfires being useless in cqc I can't tell you how useful the rocket shotgun is when you time it right. Most of cqc kills come from a well timed hellfire volley to the knee (With my ping I don't trust my aim and I go for some splash just in case). Also seekers dumbfired at the floor behind corners gets you called out for shooting through walls.

[Xacius]

HighCaliber, on November 17 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Step 2: This would add some creative depth, however I also worry that a target that was well aware of LoS'ing the mech in the first place now has to consider that the hellfire user might shoot the missiles past the wall and hope the mech will come out by then, giving you a second chance opportunity (like a missed tow that can redeem itself).

Such concern is warranted, but given the amount of space required to pull this off I don't think it would be too much of an issue.  Take the current track, for example.  If you dodge a set of Hellfires, notice how they curve around and come back at you.  Most of the time, they hit a wall or curve straight into the ground.  Users would need a fair amount of open space to make the Hellfires curve back around to hit their target, and they'd also need to aim them properly based on obstacles around the target.

Edited by Xacius, November 18 2013 - 01:31 AM.

[Aims]

palad1ne, on November 17 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

First time I couldn't agree with xacius. I think the hellfire lock on fix was urgently needed for the rocketeer. The times where little OP scout and zerker buggerz can easy fuzzy bunny us c mechs apart is now over.
And cmon man, don't tell us that its so hard with a super fast scout to dodge incoming Hellfires. This would be pathetic by all respect.

A tank is a tank because its a tank.

Good day

Hellfires could supress and destroy A classes just as easily before. In fact, I think they were better at it IF you knew when/where and how to use them correctly.

Now, they have the same capabilities except they make it even simpler.

[ShadowWarg]

I'm starting to sound like ropefish.

But Multi-lock

[EliteShooter]

I guess the lock should be limited to a certain distance ! or any kind of <slight> nerf would be great ; I enjoy playing it but sometimes I get to win a duel that I didn't deserve to win thanks to the auto-lock ... some of my newcomer friends said that the hellfires taught us to be lazy : LAZY !!

[palad1ne]

Xacius, on November 18 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

palad1ne, on November 17 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

First time I couldn't agree with xacius. I think the hellfire lock on fix was urgently needed for the rocketeer. The times where little OP scout and zerker buggerz can easy fuzzy bunny us c mechs apart is now over.
And cmon man, don't tell us that its so hard with a super fast scout to dodge incoming Hellfires. This would be pathetic by all respect.

A tank is a tank because its a tank.

Good day

A tank is a tank because it's a tank, but what happens when that tank can fly backwards at boost-like speeds and doesn't have to aim to land its shots_ Then it's more like a plane with auto-fire missiles that take away from game depth by removing the requirement to fuzzy bunny aim.

You,re right but I think we talk about playing under different conditions.

I see you playing mostly on US servers with a very good ping. I play on ... No I try to play on EU servers but they mostly poor populated and the latency spikes are annoying. So i often switch to US-E servers where I get 120-150 ping.

And that's where my experience lay on. Before the HF fix it was somewhat hard to even get one direct hit with this lock on system. Even now its a pain in the a$s without proper ping compensation but its useable.

Its not that I don't know under which conditions you're Arguments behalf. When I rush some training sessions with the rocket in optimal conditions you're absolutely right. Its then a noob easy aimbot weapon which never fails.
But this never happened online because of the hardly underpowered server slots we playing on.

[RespawningJesus]

I like it at how Last Eco keeps on popping up in almost every Hellfire discussion.

[DerMax]

If Step 1 were to be implemented, that would drive me nuts. I already cringe every time I hear that lock-on cue.

Step 2 seems to be only aggravating the problem instead of addressing it.

Also, it probably would've been better if you posted in this thread: https://community.pl...the-new-stupid/

[Ehcin]

I much prefer the lead-ing Hellfires of pre-ascension, those were fun to use, could fire them in interesting ways and curve them around almost anything.

Plus, if you knew how to dodge them, it was quite easy -though there were still ways to fire them to make most dodges inviable.

Currently.. The homing is too strong, I don't want 'homing' missiles on my mech. Also, the current non-lock hellfires are a joke, the spread is just massive making homing that more of an obvious choice to use..


Rocketeer and Bruiser were the first mechs I maxed, I love the damn things.. but now I just feel dirty for using them. I don't want to go back to the time where it felt as if I was the only one using a Rocketeer or Bruiser in the whole game among a mass of scouts, infiltrators, ect... either.


*Edit: In short; I found the old leading hellfires much more viable and fun to use in different conditions compared to the current homing ones.

Edited by Ehcin, November 18 2013 - 02:18 AM.

[-Tj-]

I'm out from several matches in a row of Hellfire hell. It wasn't even remotely fun (in fact, I may have just kept playing out of habit than enjoyment... or maybe I'm a mass-o-kissed (really_ that word is censored.._)). Something's gotta be done about them, because they're just too freaking annoying.

Here's another idea: make lock require keeping the enemy centered before it actually locks. It's currently way too easy to just click, lock, and fire. At least there'd be some skill involved if you had to keep a target centered to lock.

Also, make them destructible. Let us be able to shoot them down with well-placed shots.

Edited by -Tj-, November 18 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[LarryLaffer]

Ehcin, on November 18 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

I much prefer the lead-ing Hellfires of pre-ascension, those were fun to use, could fire them in interesting ways and curve them around almost anything.

Hmm... I think I didn't catch the difference between invasion and pre-ascension Hellfires. I thought they were almost similar, but the Invasion Hellfires were a little bit slower. Can you explain the difference to me_

Edited by LarryLaffer, November 18 2013 - 03:08 AM.

[Fstroke]

If you dont know where they are coming from they are hard to dodge_ Same could be said for any weapon and even more so since other weapons dont have a warning.

Calling the new tracking a buff is subjective. They work better in certain circumstances but are slower to change direction than they were before. This makes them much easier to out maneuver in close range.

I play with and against hellfires on the same maps and I still dont really see a problem. If a group is locking down an area or "suppressing" I would say working as intended but the spots where they shine in last eco are easy to get to and very exposed.

And to ajk point dumbfire hellfires is a wasted shot unless you are purely for splash damage. They are slow and spread so quickly you could probably only hit a brawler with 2 missles at point blank. Typically when I dumbfire I do it into clustered groups not one on one.

[Ehcin]

LarryLaffer, on November 18 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Ehcin, on November 18 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

I much prefer the lead-ing Hellfires of pre-ascension, those were fun to use, could fire them in interesting ways and curve them around almost anything.

Hmm... I think I didn't catch the difference between invasion and pre-ascension Hellfires. I thought they were almost similar, but the Invasion Hellfires were a little bit slower. Can you explain the difference to me_

I'd have to go through the patch notes to find out exactly when they changed them, but the hellfires I'm on about are the old ones.
They had a massive curve, didn't home but instead flew towards the future position of the target (The only 'problem' with these is, when you shot them at someone mid-dodge, they'd fly halfway across the map instead of anywhere near the target).

I remember them being quite fast, though I'm unsure if they were any faster than they were now.

Also, I'm not saying they were perfect in any sense of the word, they still needed work to be a bit more viable,  BUT -They were more FUN to use. Getting a lock and half-arcing them along a wall to make it seem the hologram 10 meters away fired them and such, fire them in certain ways and you could make it seem as if they came from exactly above the target.

[Teljaxx]

I think either Xacius' suggestion, with having the missiles lock on mid-flight, would be a good change to Hellfires. It would allow for more control over the missiles, and therefore increase the skill aspect of the weapon. I would also suggest making it so that you can only lock on to a target after the missiles fire, and not before like now.

As for having a visual indicator to dhow that you are being locked onto, I would suggest adding a targeting laser beam that points from the Hellfire launcher towards the locked target. It starts somewhat dim, and gets brighter once the lock on is achieved. This would also go along with an in-cockpit [LOCK ON] warning and beep, before the [INCOMING] warning.

And if this design does not work, then having manual aim tracking would be my other suggestion. Either my dual mode suggestion that I have made a couple of other times, or just having the missiles follow your crosshair with no lock on.

Teljaxx, on November 08 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

I like the multi-lock idea too. I had made a suggestion on how to improve Hellfires a while ago that was like this: Holding down the fire button starts locking onto targets. You can move your crosshairs over multiple targets to get multiple locks. When you release the fire button, the missiles split up and track whatever you locked on to. If you tap the button, the missiles fire unguided.

The special weapon function activates the laser guidance system. Now hitting fire launches a swarm of missiles that follow your crosshairs. Deactivating the laser while the missiles are in flight will cause them to fly straight towards wherever you were last aiming.

[Muffintrumpet]

draft picks
(with CR-T always being pickable, perhaps even designating one mech in each class that can always be picked)
I know it doesn't address all of the problems but it does undo what primarily makes Skillfires* so silly right now: when over half of the team's composition is armed with them
having lots of one sort of anything on one team sucks in this game

* I like that name, accurate and with just the right amount of ridicule

[dEd101]

Teljaxx, on November 18 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

... an in-cockpit [LOCK ON] warning and beep, before the [INCOMING] warning.

^^this with current hellfires and call it a day.

I think the extra warning time will be more than enough to balance out hellfires.

Edited by dEd101, November 18 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[ropefish]

*cough*

multi lock

*cough*

like a strike suit