13 replies to this topic

[Xacius]

With the Ascension update, all internals were reworked and the players were given "new" choices with regards to how they could equip their mechs.  

After much testing, some of the internals were found to be incredibly overpowered (Evasive device when it modified boost speeds, etc...).  These were rightfully nerfed.  

The internals that directly modify existing stats are overpowered, often essential.  The Repair Kit and Advanced Repair Kit are incredibly useful (For reference: with Advanced Repair Kit, the amount of available health from a death orb is 168, as opposed to the standard 120).  The Extractor increases repair orb absorption speed by a considerable amount.  If you're on a mech that relies on fuel for maneuverability (basically every mech besides the Brawler), the Fuel Converter is a necessity because it gives you a near unlimited supply of fuel, so long as you're constantly taking damage.  

Compared to the other selections, these internals are too strong.   I fear that if more active internals are introduced over the coming months, they will be overshadowed by the OP passives that most players are currently using.  

Many of you may recall my Internals idea thread, where a bunch of players suggested new internals that could modify movement or game mechanics to suit different playstyles.  


MOTHERF***IN GLIDER PLATES

Spoiler

Effect: Hyper-smooth plating are installed on the mech that cause the mech to slide after a boost or dodge.
Potential for advanced technical application: Boost and then cut engines.  You'll move faster than walking for a short duration, allowing you to maneuver in a direction and shoot at the same time.  
Number of slots: 2

I fear that, were some of these introduced, they would be overshadowed by the existing passive internals that grant considerable power and survivability.  

Honestly, I think all internals should grant some sort of active bonus, rather than just modifying existing stats.  As such, I think it's time that we as a community vote on suggested internals that we want to see in Hawken.  

I will work on compiling a list of the best suggestions from the internals idea thread.  Of course, this is subjective.  Maybe multiple people could help me compile a list of neat internals for a vote thread.
Edit: Thread created!  https://community.pl...ls-vote-thread/

Edited by Xacius, December 12 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[Sylhiri]

I still vote for this

ReachH, on September 09 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Internal: Sylhiri Device
Effect: Shift+S causes additional attitude thrusters to dodge downwards while in the air. Bonus crushing damage. Visible on radar for same amount of time as ground boosts(1 second_ 2 seconds_ not sure).
Slots: 2

I demand the name remains unchanged.

Edited by Sylhiri, December 12 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[HugeGuts]

Internals are the trickiest thing to design because other game mechanics already cover current internal functions without being as OP. Passive stats_ Tuning System. Active effects_ Abilities and items. There are internals improving skill based mechanics, but Hawken has been constantly shifting away from skill game play since before closed beta.

Current internals are similar to current countermeasures. Only difference is internals are permanent effects with unlimited use. I heard the devs want to make countermeasures coop mode only. Internals might need to do the same.

Edited by HugeGuts, December 13 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[Muffintrumpet]

I would very much like for internals to grant new options, to open up new ways of applying your mech on the battlefield
I don't like passive stat increases, it's a very unimaginative and constrictive design approach because such items will always be better than most of the more flavoursome/utilitarian Internals ideas that have been floating around

[eth0]

Internals that are more than just buffs are something I want.
Current buffing internals may either be removed or reworked for better balance. I wanna see variety in the battlefield, not min/maxing.

[Sylhiri]

Nother internal idea.

Remove the ability to use your thrusters besides dodging (no boosting or hovering) but doubles (or triples, you can even cap it if you want) your run speed, lowers the amount of time to go from walk>run and triples your jump height.

[Szei]

As I said in your previous thread, I agree completely. Active internals presenting new methods of maneuverability or other interesting stylistic changes in gameplay are far more preferable over static passive internals.

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But... speaking of internals, still hoping for a refund for the 14,080 HC credits (that's over $10 of HC if you do the math) I spent on all those maneuverability internals I bought a day before they were nerfed to uselessness.

Just imagine you went out and bought a PS4 but then the next day someone from Sony came to your house and replaced your PS4 with a PS2. That's basically what Adhesive did.*

Take a leaf out of Blizzard's book. Whenever they make a balance change to a card in HearthStone they offer a temporary period where you can trade out that card for full price. This means that if the card you paid your hard earned money for suddenly becomes useless or otherwise undesirable, you can ditch it. The bait and switch that Adhesive opted for instead of what Blizzard does was a terrible decision.

* Yes, not on that scale, but the point is to illustrate the principle, not replicate the exact situation.

Edited by Szei, December 13 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[Sylhiri]

Szei, on December 13 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

But... speaking of internals, still hoping for a refund for the 14,080 HC credits (that's over $10 of HC if you do the math) I spent on all those maneuverability internals I bought a day before they were nerfed to uselessness.

Balance happens.

[Xacius]

Sylhiri, on December 13 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Szei, on December 13 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

But... speaking of internals, still hoping for a refund for the 14,080 HC credits (that's over $10 of HC if you do the math) I spent on all those maneuverability internals I bought a day before they were nerfed to uselessness.

Balance happens.

All the more reason to refund players whenever significant changes are made.

Edited by Xacius, December 13 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[PhysicsCrime]

Sylhiri, on December 13 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Szei, on December 13 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

But... speaking of internals, still hoping for a refund for the 14,080 HC credits (that's over $10 of HC if you do the math) I spent on all those maneuverability internals I bought a day before they were nerfed to uselessness.

Balance happens.

That wasen't really balance though.  Sure they were overpowered before but now they are mostly useless.

[fingerknitter]

Same reason I actually don't like the dichotomous "choice" in items either; I think items like the disruptor and barricade are far healthier items than alpha strike potential detonators/HE charges and shields.

Direct influences on engagements are VERY present currently in both itemization and internals, and will continue to dominate choice no matter how many healthy gameplay enhancing items and internals we think up.

[Sylhiri]

PhysicsCrime, on December 15 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

That wasen't really balance though.  Sure they were overpowered before but now they are mostly useless.

The fact that the internals modify stats will always tip the balance in one direction or another. It will continue to fluctuate until the devs realize that stat increases were never a good idea in the first place and replace them, which then you can disagree if they don't give you your money back. Buying something that is overpowered today always has a risk of being balanced later on, even if it was overbalanced. This isn't something that is new to Hawken.

It took us a day or so to figure out what was the best possible combination and how it could be exploited, how they don't see this during the testing phase still baffles me.

Edited by Sylhiri, December 15 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[Aptest]

i think the best way to address this is have internals modify existing mechanics to make the mech operate differently.

the air 180 and air dodge are a decent example. how about:

mobility internals:
double jump_ wall jump_ air boost_ run without walk first (reach max move fast)

Sensors:
Q (enemy spotted) on a cloked mech makes a cloaked mech appear on radar and highlights him in red (without letting the cloaked mech know). If you Q an opponent you can preserve lock for a duration.
Active Ping system: when you fire, you also reveal any nearby (very close) mech that is within LOS of you

Weapons:
Soft Tracking system: displays lead indicator for primary and secondary weapons on hud.
Airburst Assists: display trajectory of projectiles. Display Airburst position on hud.
Rangefinder: changes hud color based on target range.

Armor:
_

Fuel:
instant fuel regeneration while after completing repair animation

Special powers:
mech dependant.

[CounterlogicMan]

A-classes with advanced repair kit and extractor with repair orb mk3....not op at all *sarcasm*.

Anyways, I agree whole heartedly with eth0.

eth0, on December 13 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Internals that are more than just buffs are something I want.
Current buffing internals may either be removed or reworked for better balance. I wanna see variety in the battlefield, not min/maxing.