31 replies to this topic

[AsianJoyKiller]

Is anybody else feeling that the Papa Bear's mechanics just won't cut it_

The super long warmup means it's practically useless in most short/medium length engagements. the heat buildup means even if you spam the SAARE you'll overheat fast, and so you have to let of the trigger, which cuts out a decent portion of your damage.

[Rasti]

While I've not played with the Papa / Mama Bear, according to my buddy who was playing it while we tested the Incinerator, both those are pretty bad when compared to the default primary.

Papa B. apparently overheats in less than three seconds from what I've seen on his weapons, and the Mama B. fires so slowly that all it's dps vanishes into the void.

At least makes me glad I haven't spend any HC on those two weapons yet.

[Pure_Amazing]

I haven't had a chance to play it yet. But I have been doing some reading and I am wondering if this is a case of the mech being underpowered or if its down to the mechs design_ And yes I'm talking about the mech in general.

For example I don't see to much for the ability the incinerator has. You have to get up really close, which doesn't go down well for a mech that's classed as a support mech and that it doesn't really have any weapons that make it superior in CQC, and it takes quite a while for it to actually carry out his ability making it easy to avoid.

I dunno, just what I have noticed from playing against it and what I have heard about it so far.

Edited by Pure_Amazing, February 14 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[DerMax]

Pure_Amazing, on February 14 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

You have to get up really close

It's surprising, but the ability's area of effect is much larger that it seems to be. You don't really have to be that close.

[hendman]

You can get rid of more heat with the alternate mode of the secondary, that helps a little. It also does more damage

[Pure_Amazing]

DerMax, on February 14 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Pure_Amazing, on February 14 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

You have to get up really close

It's surprising, but the ability's area of effect is much larger that it seems to be. You don't really have to be that close.

Oh really_ I have been fairly close to an incinerator when it used its ability, it didn't really seem to do any damage. Is the abilities stats based on how much heat it has built up_

[XxFarrenxX]

Pure_Amazing, on February 14 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

DerMax, on February 14 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Pure_Amazing, on February 14 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

You have to get up really close

It's surprising, but the ability's area of effect is much larger that it seems to be. You don't really have to be that close.

Oh really_ I have been fairly close to an incinerator when it used its ability, it didn't really seem to do any damage. Is the abilities stats based on how much heat it has built up_

Range and damage scale with heat level. It does 49% damage or so at full power to As in a respectable range. Pretty good finisher or surprise move to win a fight.

[HugeGuts]

As much as I like the Incinerator, I figured something like this would happen due to the lower TTK. PPA and M4MA are just too slow for new Hawken. When I first saw the Incinerator leak, I imagined the weapons would be like this:

BBY - Even bullet output. Pretty close to what we have now.
PPA - Slow to fast bullet output. No output > Sudden jump to normal output is what we have now.
M4MA - Slow bullet output. No output > Super slow output > Slow output is what we have now.

Edited by HugeGuts, February 14 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[caduceus26]

Yep! I commented elsewhere (first impressions) on the problematic Papa Bear.  Seems to me that the Baby Bear is the best of the trio right now--at least for me.  

Responding to another observation in this thread:  The Incinerator ability is a good finisher when it is used in situations where you have a weakened opponent in fairly close quarters. I think it surprises the opponent when he's dancing around and all of a sudden you HEAT SLAM him--no more dancin' opponent!  I've gotten a couple of kills that way.  Not sayin' it's great but it is effective under the right conditions.

Edited by caduceus26, February 16 2014 - 09:57 AM.

[[HWK]Hoogs]

It's possible to manage the Papa Bear heat gen by alternating fire modes on the SAARE and not firing the Papa Bear for a second at a time. I've used him this way in CoOp without even buying heat gen upgrades . Of course, in PVP this a lot of micro management to do heh.

[Sinekrily]

Papa is bugged, it's building much more heat than it was suposed to.  I haven't tested Mama yet, if anyone has some feed back, plz share.

[AsianJoyKiller]

[HWK]Hoogs, on February 14 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

It's possible to manage the Papa Bear heat gen by alternating fire modes on the SAARE and not firing the Papa Bear for a second at a time. I've used him this way in CoOp without even buying heat gen upgrades . Of course, in PVP this a lot of micro management to do heh.

I understand the heat is entirely possible to manage. That's not the problem, at least not for a person like me, as I came from Global Agenda, where I had to manage flying and firing my weapon using the same resource pool. That part is a cakewalk.

The problem is the drastically reduced damage output by having to stop firing your primary frequently. Also the long windup is extremely prohibitive in a PvP environment, where it's much, much harder to known when you'll need to be ready, and with the short TTK we have, you can be over halfway dead by the time it starts firing..

[AsianJoyKiller]

Sinekrily, on February 14 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Papa is bugged, it's building much more heat than it was suposed to.  I haven't tested Mama yet, if anyone has some feed back, plz share.

Where'd you hear that_

[fingerknitter]

I actually got more mileage out of the incinerators ability than I expected, but it is situational for sure. Do any of you guys know if the ability expands outside/around a shield/barrier/wall/floor_

[Greenvalv]

fingerknitter, on February 14 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

I actually got more mileage out of the incinerators ability than I expected, but it is situational for sure. Do any of you guys know if the ability expands outside/around a shield/barrier/wall/floor_

No, the damage AOE does not penetrate shields, barriers, etc.  I've died many times tonight finding that out the hard way.

Pure_Amazing, on February 14 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

For example I don't see to much for the ability the incinerator has. You have to get up really close, which doesn't go down well for a mech that's classed as a support mech and that it doesn't really have any weapons that make it superior in CQC, and it takes quite a while for it to actually carry out his ability making it easy to avoid.

I found the ability at its best when an A mech is buzzing around you meaning they came to you.  I watched everyone learn over the course of the night how not to get into CQC with the Incinerator mechs.

[Ysenberg]

Hi guys!

I'm leveling my Incinerator atm, and i simply love the ability.
Like Caduceus26 mentioned , it's a great finisher.
I had some seriously funny moments buttslamming people that got too close to me

About the higher Bear-emanations, i'm not sure - i haven't come that far yet, but i guess, Papa and Mama Bear have a reason to be there.

Ysen

[Farlanghn]

Maybe if they cut Papa's start up speed and keep the heat gen that would be fine_

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

How about M4MA_  I hear that people are saying she's also underpowered as well.

[XxFarrenxX]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on February 16 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

How about M4MA_  I hear that people are saying she's also underpowered as well.

It's an okay weapon, but it's projectile based and has low dps in exchange for SAARE high power spam and giving heat generation to enemies hit. Compared to BBY a lot of people don't like it.

[caduceus26]

MMA is marginal at best.  So far, BBY is the only primary I trust in PvP.