70 replies to this topic

[Saladamer]

Arkanor, on March 09 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

People only complain about the tech because they're too selfish to play one on their team if they need it.

I hate having to go Medic in TF2 because nobody else wants to. I don't want to buy a mech and play it because nobody else wants to because it's terribly boring to play. If it wasn't boring, you would see more people playing it and not bitching about nobody playing it (just like Medic from TF2). I'm playing this game to have fun, not so I can do volunteer work so that other people on my team can have fun.

The Tech might be overpowered just by existing, but one thing I hope everyone can see is the monstrous special ability it has. Imagine if the Bruiser's ability lasted as long as the Tech's (and had the same cooldown), it would be horrifying.

[Tipsy_Gunner]

In my opinion the tech imbalances the game just by existing, and should be removed.  Like another user said, it makes a mockery of all the basic gameplay elements that Hawken has to offer.

[KoboldCommando]

I think the results of this poll are a bit misleading.  I do think that it's balanced.  There are ways to fight it, it has weaknesses, having one on your team is not an insta-win.

But that's not the issue.  When you add even one tech to a game, the feel of the game immediately and drastically shifts, for the worse in my opinion.  Most importantly, chip damage suddenly goes from being extremely important to almost meaningless.  You're heavily encouraged to field your own tech, and a million other little things.  It feels like a completely different and significantly worse game just because some guy picked tech and held RMB.  No other mech has this massive presence, and that's the issue.

It honestly makes me sad to say this, because I love playing support and healer roles. Tech was actually the very first mech I bought. I would love tech and would play it all the time, except that I can only think about how the match would honestly be more fun for everyone involved if I just switched to something else.

I don't think a simple tweak is going to fix it either.  I think tech would need a rather radical overhaul to be anything other than either a complete game-changer or useless, there's not really a line to tread between the two.

Edited by KoboldCommando, April 26 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[Stingz]

KoboldCommando, on April 26 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

I don't think a simple tweak is going to fix it either.  I think tech would need a rather radical overhaul to be anything other than either a complete game-changer or useless, there's not really a line to tread between the two.

When you have a healer, you need to build the game around the healer. TF2 is balanced around the capabilities of the medic and Engineer due to their impact on a game.

It's quite clear when an ace player has a pocket Tech, it's going to be a steamroll if you can't take it out.
(Put Replenisher on Tech and it's green beam all day)

Edited by Stingz, April 27 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[mccrorie]

Stingz, on April 26 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

KoboldCommando, on April 26 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

I don't think a simple tweak is going to fix it either.  I think tech would need a rather radical overhaul to be anything other than either a complete game-changer or useless, there's not really a line to tread between the two.

When you have a healer, you need to build the game around the healer. TF2 is balanced around the capabilities of the medic and Engineer due to their impact on a game.

It's quite clear when an ace player has a pocket Tech, it's going to be a steamroll if you can't take it out.

And right now the devs don't seem to be doing that, or have at least not given away any info on what they plan to do about this square peg in the round hole.

They need to sort this issue and create something new to account for the tech, or admit failure and remove it altogether. I prefer the former solution.

[Saladamer]

Because Hawken has a somewhat unique system of all players being able to heal themselves at their own discretion, the Tech is less balance breaking than it could be. Still, I'd like to see the Support category go away, both Tech and Incinerator. The game has a perfectly good system of "retreat and heal" and "limit sustained DPS by overheating" and the Support category just throws a wrench in it.

The mechs are not going away however, so I'm just going to have to live with those annoyances and hope they don't add any new ones.

[Meraple]

I actively play Technician and I HIGHLY dislike it.
It toxicates the gameplay; every time you damage somebody, they're back up to full HP when you round the corner.
Hate it.

I only play Technician to help my friends or in Scrims.


Right now alot of newbies think they're ''good'' because they suck at Tech.

They don't know anything about good Techs.

Hate that as well.

[Black_Eagle_True]

Well Fist of all seeing how under powered the tech mech . its Class three weapon  still has yet to decided on.....I for one think that its Prestige weapon should be a 2nd  Helk torch ..

and Its Ability the Power heal mode the Range should + 30% to its range for the Torch ...

She is far to venerable and more often then not is walked over by other mechs.  at Mid to long range Yes But up close others shoud have some fear that can be taken Out by the Tech.

If there was Two  torch's on the Tech, with its ability On.  Lights and Med mech should be take considerable damage,  OR  heal a  all most doomed other mech Fast

An seeing how I was part of the alpha days I think this should be considered . I know I was not fully active in the alpha days I truly think this is a Good  Idea for a " Prestige " weapon

[SciFox]

Black_Eagle_True, on April 29 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Well Fist of all seeing how under powered the tech mech . its Class three weapon  still has yet to decided on.....I for one think that its Prestige weapon should be a 2nd  Helk torch ..

and Its Ability the Power heal mode the Range should + 30% to its range for the Torch ...

She is far to venerable and more often then not is walked over by other mechs.  at Mid to long range Yes But up close others shoud have some fear that can be taken Out by the Tech.

If there was Two  torch's on the Tech, with its ability On.  Lights and Med mech should be take considerable damage,  OR  heal a  all most doomed other mech Fast

An seeing how I was part of the alpha days I think this should be considered . I know I was not fully active in the alpha days I truly think this is a Good  Idea for a " Prestige " weapon

"Venerable" i do not think this word means what you think it does.

This whole thread is people griping about how powerful/OP the tech's healing is and you're proposing a heal range increase and a new weapon that doubles healing_

Not trying to be rude but that doesn't seem to follow.

[6ixxer]

tech can make a good team hard to beat. but there are always counter strategies. I've said it before, I've been on the team with no tech that won against team that had one or even two, i've been on the team with tech and lost. I've seen a tech take a team from -5 behind to +10 win, but more by organizing the team then healing them.

Its more about the team synergy than just the tech.

That said, i'd like to see the tech prestige compliment and encourage more red beam fighting (possibly higher power but much shorter range than the redox or RPR). Sometimes the team is too fuzzy bunny to even bother repairing and a bit of tech pew-pew ability would prevent me swapping to another mech.

[6ixxer]

Tipsy_Gunner, on April 26 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

In my opinion the tech imbalances the game just by existing, and should be removed.  Like another user said, it makes a mockery of all the basic gameplay elements that Hawken has to offer.

How is it imbalanced when both teams can have them_ and as per my previous post, it in no way guarantees winning. its having a better team that guarantees that, even if the better team has no tech.

[Stingz]

6ixxer, on April 30 2014 - 12:42 AM, said:

How is it imbalanced when both teams can have them_ and as per my previous post, it in no way guarantees winning. its having a better team that guarantees that, even if the better team has no tech.

It doesn't even need to be a team, just stick a pocket Tech on an ace player and watch the steamroll in the average pub match.

Has happened many times, more often now since C-Class got buffed.

Edited by Stingz, April 30 2014 - 06:40 AM.

[Skitzo1d]

I personally dont feel the tech is OP, probably closer to balance in of its own.  That being said I think the tech in its current form is not good for overall play.  If one team plays a tech and both teams are compentent and stick together it almost becomes mandatory that the other team play a tech as well, but not eveyone likes playing tech and suporting others and not everyone has a tech (lower lvl players). So it being mandatory to have that tech on the battlefield limits the options of play somewhat.  Also I dont believe that the only way to counter a particular class should only be by getting that same class, there should be several options to counter it in a team based class oreinted game.

Take for example a 1vs1 when fighting a tech is not OP at all, a good pilot will kill the tech, and a 2vs2 a heavy plus tech vs 2 good damage dealers, the 2 damage dealers will win out more than likely cause of superior firepower.  But as you get more and more of a team around the tech that wall becomes more impenatrable so it inbalances it for certain formations of mechs on the other side.

Also I feel the tech takes away from the corner play poke and peek chip away at people on the AA till you can push in strat, limiting the viability of A class mechs.

Before I always thought that a tech on each side would become a wall pushing a wall basically and make the gameplay stagnant.  Ive been told that before the tech that the gameplay was very stagnant at high lvl competative play basically each other standing away form each team taking pot shots at each other then pulling back to heal over and over etc.  And since the tech's introduction it has helped teams to beable to push into other teams.

So my suggestion would be to keep the tech but overhaul it to something as this effect.

1.) instead of a healing beam make the beam it does block a certain % of damage on the player being beamed as well as the tech himself when hes beaming someone( the tech % a smaller amount maybe, that would have to be played around with to get it to be fair for the tech to stay into battle).  The vamp beam could remain the same healing the tech as making it viable in a 1vs1 with a good tech pilot (although a little less sticky perhaps).
A.) this would allow the team with a tech to still push into enemy lines just the same amount as it would be in coordinated play with a whole team push it would be no different than a healing beam, but not make nor force the other team to feel as if they too now need a tech.
B.) Also this would not negate corner peekaboo play as much, yes it would still take longer to damage that guy being beamed but also you dont absolutly have to go for the tech first this way you could still go for the one being beamed.  This would make A classes more viable for their manuervability and corner play more so back into competative play (rather than having the 3 heavies, tech, 1 A class /dps  set up as it is now, you would be able to roll with something like a heavy/tech , 3 dps or anything of the like then).  It just gives you more options to play.
C.) As I have heard some complain the reason they dont like playing a tech is they become the biggest target in the world with a huge neon glowing sign that says shoot here, this option would negate "target the tech first" theory somewhat, yes the tech still would be a bigger target in the open but not as much cause they cant pull back and heal but only negate damage so if you where to corner play the big heavy up front you will wear him down eventually and then beable to push killing him first rather than the tech. This also would not negate the play of C class mechs I dont believe in anyway, yes an A class can corner play better but a tech beamign that heavy would make the heavy beable to corner play substantially longer thus even providing someone with a lower skill lvl to be viable against a pro if you have that tech behind you to back you.

These suggestions to an overhaul is only thing I can think of to make it the best of both worlds for the people that like being tech and for those that dont like the tech, for lower lvl of play as so for higher tier lvl play. Take it as a penny for your thoughts cause this is coming only from a newbie .

Edit:  Just a note a lot of people compare the tech to tf2 medic which I can see why.  But the difference mainly is in tf2 you have other classes that can counter that medic (sniper, spy). Since that game has one shot kills for those headshots and backstabs you can counter that medic other ways, which in Hawken you dont have that. The medic in tf2 is a key role to being able to push into enemy lines with its uber charge, so my formal suggestions to block damage with the tech rather than heal would be more akin to the medic uber charge as well as still make it viable to have a tech to push into enemy lines.

Edited by Skitzo1d, April 30 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[DaPheel]

My main beef is the change of playstyle the tech brought to the game. Technician brought a new sense of security, so people hold their position and slug it out, rather then follow the flow of battle all around the map.

[Farlanghn]

 EE7C5D54668724B3268693A086C6D05E5451CDD0.jpg   87.69K   19 downloads This was a full game. The tech is awesome. Lowest Health yet it is speedy and has nice damage output. Its balanced and its just most people don't know how to use it. If you think this can only heal then you are wrong.

[S1RKN0CKS4L0T]

The Techcinerator breaks Hawken. The TechHealer breaks Hawken. This mech is conceptually flawed and a nightmare to play against.

If I find myself against a team where one guy is playing tech consistently, I see one of two things happening:
1. The Tech sticks with its team and heals nonstop. Other team becomes 2x harder to kill and can sweep across the map. Even basic teamwork turns them into a force of nature. I usually lose these matches unless I pull out my Tech, which I've intentionally practiced with so that I can try to counter enemy Techs.

2. The Tech plays offense. Sticks with the team and heals occasionally, but chases down any weaker opponents, locks the Incinerator onto them, and hovers/jumps around, nearly impossible to hit even with a shotgun-type weapon, and bleeds them to death. I have seen a strong upswing in this behavior recently, and it's very, very difficult for me to counter. I am not a top-tier player, I have enough trouble with scouts and reapers dodging like flies, and I've died due to sheer DPS because the tech got in my face and was impossible to hit before I bled out.

The first instance is annoying as hell because it forces me to play a class I hate in order to have any hope of winning. I don't like the Tech's progression, I don't like healing other people, I don't like being in a tin can. Hate it, hate it, hate it. The second instance is simply infuriating: with the Incinerator's insta-lock (you don't even have to TRY to aim!!) and constant DPS, a skilled Tech pilot can facehug practically any A or B class mech to death all on their own. I've literally seen a Tech player be the deciding factor in TDM, match after match. Whatever team they're on will win, especially if the Tech takes the offense once in a while. If someone can fly a Berserker really well, they can be a gamebreaking Tech. I've personally asked super-skilled Tech players to use other mechs occasionally instead of just spamming the Tech, just so we can have a chance or the other team can.

Just recently, I played a 2v2 against 2 techs. They healed each other constantly, double-facehugged us to death with Incinerators faster than my partner or I could respawn to help each other, were extremely mobile, and the players refused to use other mechs. It sucked and I quit after 3 deaths, they were too hard to hit and the players were really rude trolls on top of that.

Hawken devs, PLEASE either redesign the Tech from the ground up or get rid of it. Having a weapon you don't even have to aim to use is gamebreaking and a terrible idea. Here's my recommendation:

1. Make the TechHealer a burst weapon instead of an automatic fire. Similar to the HEAT cannon, the longer you hold down the trigger, the bigger a heal you can give, up to a point. Baseline 35 health, peak of 125. These are just numbers I'm throwing out, but I hope they get my point across.

2. Get rid of the Incinerator. As it is, either the pilot never uses it (heals only/can't survive in close-range long enough), or they fly the Tech like a Scout or Berserker and can abuse the weapon. It's not fair, and it needs to go. I don't have any real suggestions for a replacement - maybe a mobile shield_ The Incinerator should never have been put in the game.

3. If you're going to keep the Incinerator, make the Tech a slower B class mech. It will be easier to hit, harder for the pilot to facehug and dps someone to death. Either that, or throw in some motion/fuel penalty when firing Incinerator.

I like the idea of a healing unit in the game. It promotes teamwork and some people like that style of play, so it should be there. But the Tech as it stands is annoying - even a newbie can alter the flow of a battle if he/she runs a tech adequately well, and a top-tier player can (as the leaderboards show) be life support for their teams or tear apart damaged enemies in short order. Also, there should be no more than one tech on either team. Maybe this can be a separate server or something, but the class is too easy to abuse and too gamebreaking for there to be 3 or 4 in a match.

Edited by S1RKN0CKS4L0T, May 08 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[Battlesbreak]

Words "Focus Technician" seems to be a myth in here.

[Cornarias]

Battlesbreak, on May 08 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

Words "Focus Technician" seems to be a myth in here.

Except that bullets don't curve around walls or mechs.

The fact that you must focus the Technician is harmful to the game in it of itself.

[Battlesbreak]

Cornarias, on May 08 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

Battlesbreak, on May 08 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

Words "Focus Technician" seems to be a myth in here.

Except that bullets don't curve around walls or mechs.

The fact that you must focus the Technician is harmful to the game in it of itself.

Maybe having Infiltrator pulling the Technician off or sniping down the Technician could help_

[P3ntatonix3d]

Every mech can be an OP one if put in the hands of an ace.
Take the Flak Scout. High damage output,a hard hitting class A,Air Compressor,yata yata yata
I've seen a one take out an entire team with the help of teammates suppression.
Infiltrators who go invisible then go over my head then air dodge just to confuse me then dance around my head.
No one's complaining about the scouts power but now the underpowered tech_
Just get one guy to flank the tech and the rest of the of your allies to help is sufficent.
Or just go in zerg rush with all your teammates with like 2 or 3 ppl focusing on tech.
Even the predator brought a different playstyle when it came out.
I also find the helix beam easy to break when fighting other A classes who is flying all over
Continued suppression reduces heal value too.