27 replies to this topic

[Timeraider]

Shotgun streak at close range_ Rocketlaunchers in the face_ nope.. what does most dmg.. a freaking submachinegun. You have a shotgun_ a charge weapon_ a rocketlauncher_ .. no chance 1v1 against a light unit with a submachine gun.. no matter how many times you hit them.. you know they will deal enough dmg to take you down before you can even fly up

[KOS_Baconman]

I have noticed assault are getting used more with the SMC, but really I have to say (in my opinion) the reflak raider is the most OP mech right now

[FakeName]

They are good but not OP, However they should overheat way more quickly, right now you have no downsides when using an autocannon. No overheating no Ammo, just spammign spammign spamming, add Ammo (100 shots the nreload but unlimited munition in general) or 100% heat increase for every weapon.

[Stingz]

FakeName, on February 23 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

They are good but not OP, However they should overheat way more quickly, right now you have no downsides when using an autocannon. No overheating no Ammo, just spammign spammign spamming, add Ammo (100 shots the nreload but unlimited munition in general) or 100% heat increase for every weapon.

The biggest thing is CRT and Assault both have coolant abilities, extending the amount of time they can keep the dakka flowing.

Heat is always an issue in the Zerker since it has no coolant, and only auto weaponry.

[Zanozus]

SMC and Assault Rifle don't lose effectiveness at long range, they generate less heat and easy to use.
SMC
DPS: 95.217 Time to overheat: 17.164 Spread: 0.035

Assault Rifle (Laser)
DPS: 90 Time to overheat: 14.286 Spread: 0.025

Reflak
DPS: 98.182 Time to overheat: 11.579 Spread: 0.108

https://docs.google....drive_web#gid=7

Edited by Zanozus, February 23 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Stingz]

Zanozus, on February 23 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

SMC and Assault Rifle don't lose effectiveness at long range, they generate less heat and easy to use.
SMC
DPS: 95.217 Time to overheat: 17.164 Spread: 0.035

Assault Rifle (Laser)
DPS: 90 Time to overheat: 14.286 Spread: 0.025

Reflak
DPS: 98.182 Time to overheat: 11.579 Spread: 0.108

https://docs.google....drive_web#gid=7

Damage drops off at long range though.

I don't think the SMC and AR should have such ludicrous accuracy though.
Nudging the spread up by 0.005-0.010 could work.

Edited by Stingz, February 23 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Invect]

I agree: increase the spread a bit more. I've abandoned the Assault Rifle for the SMC since it just sprays and sprays.

Timeraider, on February 23 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

before you can even fly up

That makes you easier to track with a rapid fire weapon. You'll also immediately get force-fed a rocket by any competent player. Stay on the ground and give'em the jukes!

[Exeon]

Zanozus, on February 23 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

SMC and Assault Rifle don't lose effectiveness at long range, they generate less heat and easy to use.
SMC
DPS: 95.217 Time to overheat: 17.164 Spread: 0.035

Assault Rifle (Laser)
DPS: 90 Time to overheat: 14.286 Spread: 0.025

Reflak
DPS: 98.182 Time to overheat: 11.579 Spread: 0.108

https://docs.google....drive_web#gid=7

These numbers have been changed, check the feb 21st tab on that spreadsheet

[mrvile]

Exeon, on February 24 2014 - 01:28 AM, said:

Zanozus, on February 23 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

SMC and Assault Rifle don't lose effectiveness at long range, they generate less heat and easy to use.
SMC
DPS: 95.217 Time to overheat: 17.164 Spread: 0.035

Assault Rifle (Laser)
DPS: 90 Time to overheat: 14.286 Spread: 0.025

Reflak
DPS: 98.182 Time to overheat: 11.579 Spread: 0.108

https://docs.google....drive_web#gid=7

These numbers have been changed, check the feb 21st tab on that spreadsheet

Current figures:

SMC
DPS: 108.261 Time to overheat: 17.164 Spread: 0.035

Assault Rifle (Laser)
DPS: 99.000 Time to overheat: 14.286 Spread: 0.025

[Zanozus]

lol, Current numbers are even higher than before.

[BurnsHot]

Sustained Fire Weapons are currently too strong.  I'll pick the SMG any day of the week.  Weapon Balance has flip flopped so many times we lost count.  

What it boils down to for me is: sure burst weapons are deadly but you have to work for that kill.  Why work so hard when you can just spam the SMG and basically beat the opponent to the kill punch.

Lately I've been treating them like this: Burst is for show boating and playing around.  Sustained (SMG) is for when you get serious and are trying for a match win.

Edited by BurnsHot, July 16 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Z3roCool007]

So you want us sustain weapon users to go *clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick*
Just to fire a point-D_

Edited by Z3roCool007, July 16 2014 - 09:16 AM.

[BurnsHot]

Z3roCool007, on July 16 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

So you want us sustain weapon users to go *clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick*
Just to fire a point-D_

HUH _   what does that have to do with how strong Sustained weapons are_

We are talking damage balance.  What are you talking about_

Realistically you are never going to make everyone happy so the Squeaky wheel gets the Grease!

Edited by BurnsHot, July 16 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[craftydus]

Beware the SMC, it can make you fat.
Hear me out.
Using the SMC (too much) is a gauranteed method of gaining weight.
Because all one has to do is depress mouse1, which frees up the other hand to eat high calorie, sugar and fat rich foods.
You aren't dashing back to cover or taking great effort to center your crosshairs on slow moving enemies when you main an SMC exclusively.
You are in fact, lazily losing small quantities of high brain function and reaction time, and increasing the risks associated with hypertension.

Listen, I used an SMC on a vangaurd for 3 days and gained 20 lbs.

Spoiler

My physician warned me that another 2 weeks of maining an SMC, and I would shave 20 years off my life span, end up with diabetes, and require a CPAP machine to combat the sleep apnea that always comes with excessive SMC related fitness issues.
On my doctor's stern behest, I was able to recognize the danger and get into a hawkins-reaper, cut carbs, and develop a weight training regimen before it got too bad.
That man saved my life, and I owe him a debt of gratitude.
My family and I thank him for opening our eyes to the serious nature of "SMC Convalescence".
I just want to warn others of the pitfalls of getting easy deeps and regressing into a lazy pilot with clogged arteries and bad strats.
It's a crutch few understand as they sink into the SMC habit. Some may never recover.

Eat right, exercise regularly, and don't get stuck in the bottomless rut that is Type1 SubMachineCannon Syndrome.
Change to other weapons/mechs and have healthy Hawken sessions, high in fiber and low in fats/sugars.
Be well.

Edited by craftydus, July 16 2014 - 09:50 AM.

[Infyrno]

BurnsHot, on July 16 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Sustained Fire Weapons are currently too strong.  I'll pick the SMG any day of the week.  Weapon Balance has flip flopped so many times we lost count.  

What it boils down to for me is: sure burst weapons are deadly but you have to work for that kill.  Why work so hard when you can just spam the SMG and basically beat the opponent to the kill punch.

Lately I've been treating them like this: Burst is for show boating and playing around.  Sustained (SMG) is for when you get serious and are trying for a match win.

Sustained fire weapons do more dps but you have to be in the open to use it, burst weapons like the flak cannon are great for corner play and make you (mildly) less vulnerable if you use it right

[obliviondoll]

For the duration of a "burst" of fire with a Burst weapon, the Burst weapon has better DPS than a DPS weapon. Whether that's a single instantaneous shot, or an actual burst of fire that takes half a second or so, the damage output is huge. DPS weapons need time on target to overtake you in damage.

If I see an enemy coming in my unmodified noob CR-T, line up and open fire as soon as he's in the open, and they pop out of cover, hit me with Flak, then duck back into cover immediately, my "higher" DPS is actually lower because the time they spend NOT firing is also spent not being a target. If you're stupid enough to go head-on against someone with DPS weaponry when you don't have the same, that's your fault.

[BurnsHot]

obliviondoll, on July 17 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

For the duration of a "burst" of fire with a Burst weapon, the Burst weapon has better DPS than a DPS weapon. Whether that's a single instantaneous shot, or an actual burst of fire that takes half a second or so, the damage output is huge. DPS weapons need time on target to overtake you in damage.

If I see an enemy coming in my unmodified noob CR-T, line up and open fire as soon as he's in the open, and they pop out of cover, hit me with Flak, then duck back into cover immediately, my "higher" DPS is actually lower because the time they spend NOT firing is also spent not being a target. If you're stupid enough to go head-on against someone with DPS weaponry when you don't have the same, that's your fault.

I wouldn't call anyone stupid if you go head to head against a DPS with Burst.  Did you forget that some encounters you cannot control_  If you are caught out in the open, you have to stand and fight.  Running means you are going to get shot the back.

[obliviondoll]

BurnsHot, on July 18 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

obliviondoll, on July 17 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

For the duration of a "burst" of fire with a Burst weapon, the Burst weapon has better DPS than a DPS weapon. Whether that's a single instantaneous shot, or an actual burst of fire that takes half a second or so, the damage output is huge. DPS weapons need time on target to overtake you in damage.

If I see an enemy coming in my unmodified noob CR-T, line up and open fire as soon as he's in the open, and they pop out of cover, hit me with Flak, then duck back into cover immediately, my "higher" DPS is actually lower because the time they spend NOT firing is also spent not being a target. If you're stupid enough to go head-on against someone with DPS weaponry when you don't have the same, that's your fault.

I wouldn't call anyone stupid if you go head to head against a DPS with Burst.  Did you forget that some encounters you cannot control_  If you are caught out in the open, you have to stand and fight.  Running means you are going to get shot the back.

Standing and fighting when it's the only option is one thing.

Coming to the forums to complain that DPS weapons have higher DPS than Burst weapons is quite another.

Also, if you're trying to damage-race a DPS weapon with a Burst weapon, you should EITHER expect to die, or to have reinforcements show up and help.

And this is before factoring in the ability to dodge towards cover if you know the map well enough. An experienced player (say, for example, not me) should be able to take a fight from out in the open (where you rarely want to be with a burst weapon in the first place) to a more suitable environment.

Edited by obliviondoll, July 18 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[Z3roCool007]

BurnsHot, on July 16 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Z3roCool007, on July 16 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

So you want us sustain weapon users to go *clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick*
Just to fire a point-D_

HUH _   what does that have to do with how strong Sustained weapons are_

We are talking damage balance.  What are you talking about_

Realistically you are never going to make everyone happy so the Squeaky wheel gets the Grease!

Oh, Damage_ Right. Forget everything I said!

[Meraple]

Z3roCool007, on July 16 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

So you want us sustain weapon users to go *clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick*
Just to fire a point-D_

yes