49 replies to this topic

[nanocage]

I ended up buying the the G2-Assault out of sheer curiosity. Unlike previous statements the stats do differ from the original Assault. The description mentions increased armor and improved ground and air movement, which is exactly what this close combat mech needs, since it only utilizes two (nerfed) vulcans.
Here is a short comparison of the G1 and G2 Assault stats:

Armor
575 (G1)
585 (G2)
Fuel Tank
94
84
Boost Speed
29.52
27.72
Fuel Regen
9.62
8.51
Ground Movement
16
18
Air Speed
29
32
(The other stats are identical.)

It was fun for a short time to use double vulcan, the novelty  wears of quickly however and I ended up feeling frustrated loosing some of the usual versatility with the burst secondary. There is no reason not to press both mouse buttons down and shoot like there's no tomorrow. At least this puts the Coolant ability in good use. I happen to use the ability more often then on the original Assault. Reading the description one could assume, that it's a slightly beefier Assault with increased ground speed, which is all I wanted, but you will lose boost speed and some of the fuel tank. In the end its nothing more then another rebalanced Assault with weak vulcans.

Edited by nanocage, February 25 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[[HWK]ZamboniChaos]

I apologize for the confusion, there was a miscommunication internally regarding the mech stats. I'll be updating the patch notes shortly.

[Ker4u]

[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on February 25 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

I apologize for the confusion, there was a miscommunication internally regarding the mech stats. I'll be updating the patch notes shortly.

such a minor thing to leave out

[nanocage]

[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on February 25 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

I apologize for the confusion, there was a miscommunication internally regarding the mech stats. I'll be updating the patch notes shortly.

That's funny. I originally ignored that line, while reading the original patch notes and assumed, this mech will get different stats.

[CounterlogicMan]

nanocage, on February 25 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Ground Movement
16
18
Air Speed
29
32

Fuzzybunny Air Assault

[S4LT]

It would be nice if you could unlock other sustained dual-wields for it i.e. SMC, Assault Rifle, Mini-Flac (holy close quarters dps batman), for example. Kind of lame if you only get one weapon set to use with it, and sets it apart from other mech choices in a negative way.

[Hell_Diguner]

(From in-game stats)

Assault G2:
Cost: 12816 HC / 1440 MC
Armor: 585
Fuel Capacity: 84 liters
Boost Speed: 27.72 meters/sec
Fuel Regeneration: 8.51 liters/sec
Run Speed: 18 meters/sec
Walk Speed: 15.3 meters/sec
Ground Acceleration: 33.6 meters/sec/sec
Air Speed: 18.56 meters/sec
Max Height: 20 meters
Thruster Vertical Speed: 11.8 meters/sec
Radar 90 meters
Overheat Recovery Time: 5.75 seconds
Dodge Cooldown: 1.2 seconds
Item: Detonator

Assault:
Cost: 2344 HC / 432 MC
Armor: 575
Fuel Capacity: 94 liters
Boost Speed: 29.52 meters/sec
Fuel Generation: 9.62 liters/sec
Run Speed: 16 meters/sec
Walk Speed:  14.4 meters/sec
Ground Acceleration: 31.2 meters/sec/sec
Air Speed: 16.82 meters/sec
Max Height: 20 meters
Thruster Vertical Speed: 11.35 meters/sec
Radar 90 meters
Overheat Recovery Time: 5.75 seconds
Dodge Cooldown: 1.2 seconds
Item: HE Charge

(From Steam Patch Notes https://community.pl...atch-notes-r332)
http://i.imgur.com/OCSYi2l.png

Point-D Vulcan:
Fire Rate: 0.12
Damage: 14.52
Heat Generation: 0.875
Falloff Range Start: 40 meters
Falloff Range End: 200 meters
Minimum Damage: 3
Spread: ___ - very wide spread
Optimal Damage per Second: 121 dps
Heat per Second: 7.3 hps

Point-D Vulcan XT L/R:
Fire Rate: 0.20
Damage: 13.50
Heat Generation: 1.2
Falloff Range Start: ___
Falloff Range End: ___
Minimum Damage: ___
Spread: ___
Optimal Damage per Second: 67.5 dps
Heat per Second: 6 hps

New stats for the Vulcan XT L/R from a hotfix available in Post 15

I see two major problems with the Assault G2.

First, it's not particularly useful in-game. The health/movement stats aren't significantly different from the Assault, and the combination of both Vulcal XT's does slightly more damage per second and has significantly more heat buildup than the single normal Vulcan. Playing the Assault G2 is almost like playing the Assault and never using the TOW rocket. This is a simple enough balance issue to fix - just increase the damage a bit.

Second, and more importantly, adding "Second Generation Mechs" which "...expand on the playstyles of existing mech classes to allow for more variety among them" re-adds significant vertical progression to Hawken. Only now, instead of statistical boosts to each mech, long-time players have access to more "builds" or "loadouts" for each existing mech.

G2 mechs are treated like completely new mechs in the meta of the game - you buy them separately from G1 mechs and you can equip different internals between G1 and G2 mechs. It is as though the previous mechs are now considered in their own sub-classes, and you gain access to sub-sub-classes by first "mastering" the sub-class and then spending a large sum of Hawken Credits. It's vertical progression where older player have access to more specialization.

So how you fix it_ Remove the need to max out a mech before unlocking G2 mechs, and reduce the price so G1 and G2 mechs are about the same cost. The different mechs are (supposed to be) marginally different in the first place, so there should be marginal differences between unlocking them. Alternatively, you just buy the one mech and can further buy the pre-tuned minor specialization and cosmetic changes - like buying alternate and prestige weapons.

--Of course, replacing the TOW with a Vulcan is not exactly a "minor" change to how the Assault mech plays. In other words, I'm saying make the Assault G2 a normal mech on it's own, similar to the Raider, or remove the Assault G2 and add the Vulcan XT-L and a TOW with slightly different stats to what you can buy for the normal Assault.

Edit: Fixed where I accidentally reversed some G1 and G2 stats.
Edit2: Warning about new stats as per hotfix

Edited by Hell_Diguner, February 27 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[nanocage]

Are you sure the costs are correct_
I didn't spent 2344 HC for G2. I've spent ~12800 HC.
In addition the G2 comes equipped with the Detonator and not with the H.E: Charge. It seems like your stats are mixed up a bit.

Anyway; It's kinda dumb to sell this mech as an "expansion of existing playstyles", when this playstyle is just dull and lacks variety.

Edited by nanocage, February 26 2014 - 12:01 AM.

[Ysenberg]

It's like Pókemon - you gotta catch'em all^^

[XoODrag]

I bought the Assault G2 as well.  It's a fun mech and I completely rip other mechs to pieces... in training   It would be nice if it had a bit more oomph though.  Either that or more armor.  But that's my two cents.

[randomination]

Everything about this mech is awesome, apart from its pathetic weapons. I read everything about it, realised it would be bad, and still bought it in the misguided hope that perhaps it would be ok. It really isn't at this point. The combination of spin up time, pitiful fire rate, damage and accuracy is minorly offset by the coolant ability which allows you to fire inneffectively for twice as long. Re-balance, please, thanks.

[Frenchit]

This mech is garbage is as. If these vulcans dont get some kind of buff, I'm going to be extremely unhappy. :/

[nanocage]

Recently I got a K/D of 19/0 with it on Missle Assault. That doesn't count however, because the other players were relatively inexperienced, while I was using the most hardcore hit-and-run technique ever. I never had to retreat so often with a mech before. Playing hit-and-run with two spin-up vulcans is annoying.

In order to be a full alternative to the existing mechs, there are most definitely buffs needed. We will however never get two full vulcans, because of balance. There are a couple of viable suggestions mentioned though:

1) "Perma-Blitz": Allow it to shoot while boosting. It would be balanced since the boostspeed and fuel tank is actually lower then on the original assault.
2) A 25-30 % increase in DPS.
3) Vulcans heat up seperately: This way you can alternate them. One heats up and the other cools down.You could technically shoot forever. If necessary you shoot with both and use the Coolant ability. Edit: This additionally breaks the monotony of always having to press both mousebuttons down. Edit 2: No "ghost heat" please...

Edited by nanocage, February 27 2014 - 12:19 AM.

[Nomnom_Cookie]

I bought this mech, did terribly with it, and figured that it was due to my inexperience. However, looking at the stats on the Vulcan XT I have a really hard time seeing a situation where any player would be better served with a G2 Assault over the original. Unless I've missed something, which is possible, my feeling is that the XT is deliberately undertuned. There are a couple good reasons for this: first, if the mech were superior to the Assault it would cause huge player backlash against what would be perceived as a P2W mech. Second, dual primaries is a significant departure from the existing mech designs with a definite risk of design bugs. Those of us playing the G2 right now are essentially beta testing it to give the devs a better idea of how to tune the G2 without accidentally breaking the game. It seems likely to me that in the coming weeks we'll see some tweaks to bring the G2 up to par as a CQC mech.

[Hell_Diguner]

New Vulcan XT-L/R stats as per hotfix notes: http://steamcommunit...29226_l=english

Point-D Vulcan XT L/R:
Fire Rate: 0.20
Damage: 15.50
Heat Generation: 1.1
Falloff Range Start: ___
Falloff Range End: ___
Minimum Damage: ___
Spread: Reduced by 10% (10% better than Point-D Vulcan_)
Optimal Damage per Second: 77.5 dps
Heat per Second: 5.5 hps


Combined Optimal Damage per Second of both Vulcan XT's: 155 dps
Combined Heat per Second of both Vulcan XT's: 11 hps

Optimal Damage per Second of Point-D Vulcan: 121 dps
Heat per Second of Point-D Vulcan: 7.3 hps

Optimal Damage per Second of Point-D Vulcan and TOW Rocket: 176.55 dps
Heat per Second of Point-D Vulcan and TOW Rocket: 11.96 hps


On paper, the new stats look like the Assault-G2 will be about right. Equal in power to other mechs, anyway. Still not too sure about 1) a mech with only sustained damage weapons and 2) the concept of G2 mechs: only gaining access to them by first maxing out previous mechs. I still say this is a needless re-implementation of vertical progression and its implementation is rather clunky in the menus and progression screens.

[RemoteRadical]

Does anyone else find it jarring that devs are churning out new mechs and new weapons, while the 16 (_) existing mechs and several tens of weapons are still in need of balancing_

Not only that- they also found a new way to make it harder to earn the mech with HC, by making it prerequisite to own and level up "G1" version. All in all- I estimate that earning a G2 mech from scratch could take around 70 hours of play time. If you avoided buying internals, items or weapons along the way (which puts you at disadvantage in every game).

Personally, I think this strategy is greedy and although I was comfortable with buying MC before, I will stop now. I have two decently equipped mechs and HC should let me outfit a third one before I decide to return to TF2.

Edited by RemoteRadical, February 27 2014 - 06:54 PM.

[nanocage]

I can't blame them for adding incentives to buy stuff in-game. In the end no one is forced to play a side-grade version of an existing mech, which is btw still better. I personally don't mind a minimal vertical progression. For me this spices things up a bit in the area of mech purchases as long as it stays reasonable. Why not having a couple of mechs that require special unlock conditions_ Prior to the Steam release every mech was inside a gigantic vertical and horizontal progression system, which was overblown. They reintroduced a much more narrowed down tier-system now with this Generation 2-concept.
It was also smart choice to start with the Assault since this mech is barely played.

[Zdragow]

RemoteRadical, on February 27 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

All in all- I estimate that earning a G2 mech from scratch could take around 70 hours of play time. If you avoided buying internals, items or weapons along the way (which puts you at disadvantage in every game).

Hardly. The majority of my garage is maxed out and the average time taken to max out is 10 - 14 hours of playtime. For each mech.
If we're speaking realistically I'd say that the G2 would take an average of 25 hours (with internal and item purchases) to purchase from scratch.

This is assuming that you're an average player and hit around mid-range on the scoreboard each game, which really isn't that difficult. Especially considering the majority of people can earn a free 750HC from winning each game mode. (Deathmatch excluded simply because it's far more difficult to "win" in that mode.)

EDIT: Following this chain of events.

Start > Play CRT (with optional item/internal purchases averaging 12,000HC) until 3844HC is earned > Buy Assault > Play Assault until maxed (with same optional purchases) > Earn 12,816HC > Buy G2-Assault

Edited by Zdragow, February 28 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[RemoteRadical]

Zdragow, on February 28 2014 - 03:30 AM, said:

I'd say that the G2 would take an average of 25 hours (with internal and item purchases) to purchase from scratch.

I based my estimate on earnings from Team Deathmatch. Most games take 10 minutes and on average (winning/loosing/performance) used to earn me 130HC. This gives 780HC and hour- an overestimate, not accounting for lobby time. To buy 12,000HC mech takes about 15 hours of pure play time. I have played 50 hours total, about 2/3rd of time on Berzerker and accounting for double xp weekend... about 30 hours to max out one mech.

Oh, but you could earn HC towards G2 while leveling G1, so I guess that cuts down the 15 hours. All right new total is 45 hours.

This is my best estimate as a casual player.

But I have no issue with play time. My only issue is with what I see as dev's lack of focus to balance core gameplay before making it worse in pursuit of further monetisation. Hardly anyone will agree that core game experience has been enriched by G2.

Edited by RemoteRadical, February 28 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[Cpt_Kill_Jack]

The G2 Assault is in a much better position now than it was when it first came out.