38 replies to this topic

[mittens800]

Has it_

Played yesterday and sucked with rocketeer.
I used to love that mech for taking out pesky A classes...
Now, no more

It seems like HF are slower and easier to dodge now.
I know people complained about HF but I loved them!

Personally I didn't think HF required a nerf.  They were a touch on the side of OP but not really.
1v1 a rocketeer with an A class mech was entirely possible if you get up close and personal while they are flying.  You just can't aim those rockets to hit when you're moving in the air and face to face.

Can we at least make the seeker usable in CQC if hellfires now have the ability to be EASILY dodged_

[[HWK]ZamboniChaos]

I'm not sure when the last time you played was, but the Hellfires haven't been adjusted recently.

[OmegaNull]

mittens800, on February 26 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Has it_

Played yesterday and sucked with rocketeer.
I used to love that mech for taking out pesky A classes...
Now, no more

It seems like HF are slower and easier to dodge now.
I know people complained about HF but I loved them!

Personally I didn't think HF required a nerf.  They were a touch on the side of OP but not really.
1v1 a rocketeer with an A class mech was entirely possible if you get up close and personal while they are flying.  You just can't aim those rockets to hit when you're moving in the air and face to face.

Can we at least make the seeker usable in CQC if hellfires now have the ability to be EASILY dodged_

That is a good thing. Previously HF were shreded everything.

Also, timing is everything.

Edited by OmegaNull, February 26 2014 - 12:10 PM.

[Analysis]

Hellfires still seem to follow me around absurd corners.

[mittens800]

Welp, maybe I was wrong!

[Farlanghn]

mittens800, on February 26 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Welp, maybe I was wrong!

A lot of people are just finding ways around it. Rocketeers and bruisers are beginner mechs. I mean come on, lock on weapons_ Only time you can really dominate someone is if you catch them in a hallway or someone else has been fighting them. I recently love fighting against HFs because I hear the *BEEP* and then boost behind cover. Then pop out and tow, then *BEEP* again. Rinse and repeat. Instead of locking on just fire the HF's and hope you get splash damage.

[Audible_Silence]

I like the hellfires, Seeker Rocketeer is my favorite C class and Assault  Bruiser is my best B class. I've always like firing clusters of missiles in videogames... might have something to do with the Macross Anime... I play as other mechs too so it's not like i can't play without them. Raider being one of them. love chasing down those who retreat.

[Lucier]

[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on February 26 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

I'm not sure when the last time you played was, but the Hellfires haven't been adjusted recently.

After the steam patch, the tracking of the hellfires was reverted to the way it worked before the invasion patch.

[Krellus]

Farlanghn, on February 26 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

mittens800, on February 26 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Welp, maybe I was wrong!

A lot of people are just finding ways around it. Rocketeers and bruisers are beginner mechs. I mean come on, lock on weapons_ Only time you can really dominate someone is if you catch them in a hallway or someone else has been fighting them. I recently love fighting against HFs because I hear the *BEEP* and then boost behind cover. Then pop out and tow, then *BEEP* again. Rinse and repeat. Instead of locking on just fire the HF's and hope you get splash damage.

hellfires are the worst secondary in game and need a buff, at least in terms of a quicker, tighter dumbfire, for exactly the reasons you state. low dmg, hit rarely, slow refire rate (the slowest if you inc lock time). hellfires are terrible in the current iteration. rocketeer survives care of the seeker and hp. bruisers are a rare sight nowdays. there is nothing hellfires do that a reaper or ss dont do better with their hitscan secondaries. there just isnt a sniper c or rocketeer would be dead, too.

Edited by Krellus, February 26 2014 - 06:27 PM.

[Anichkov3]

Read and watch video noobs!
http://steamcommunit...s/_id=230123494

Quote

Their DPS is relatively low, and requires a lock-on for full damage.

Let's review the stats.
Each individual missile does 18.5 damage. The entire salvo consists of 6 missiles, with a cooldown of 3.25 seconds. They have a maximum burst potential of 111 damage. The 3.25 second cooldown does not include lock-on time, and the user cannot lock onto targets while the weapon is on cooldown. Therefore, unless you're dumbfiring, the reload timer is realistically 3.5 seconds.

The TOW missile has a maximum burst damage of 125, with a refire rate of 2.25s. That's almost a 50% faster fire rate with 10% more damage! Additionally, the TOW can be remote-detonated, whereas the Hellfires cannot.

And you still want to say that Hellfires needs no OP_

Edited by Anichkov3, February 27 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[Stingz]

Krellus, on February 26 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Hellfires are the worst secondary in game and need a buff, at least in terms of a quicker, tighter dumbfire, for exactly the reasons you state. low dmg, hit rarely, slow refire rate (the slowest if you include lock time). Hellfires are terrible in the current iteration.

Hellfires have about MIRV corsair spread when free-fired, while better than nothing, still won't help much compared to a TOW.

[The cooldown is agonizing since it's the same for dumbfire or locked mode, and less damage for both.
Extra heat (12 vs TOW 10) is a kick in the fuzzy bunny if you miss (especially on Vulcan Bruiser).]

Giving unguided Hellfires helix spread and/or more speed/damage could be interesting, could break something.
It's probably something the devs need to test on a separate/dev server first.

Edited by Stingz, February 27 2014 - 08:37 AM.

[mittens800]

This thread is getting funny.

How many posts have we read about "hellfire is OP" "please nerf HF" "omfg hellfire spam so annoying"

And now talk about buffing HF   You'd probably have a riot on your hands at that point.

I only brought this up because that day (this is weeks after the first steam patch), I couldn't seem to hit anything with HF.  Usually I'm pretty ok with it, and it was pretty good against A class mechs on open maps.  With proper positioning, it wasn't too bad to take out even pretty dang good players due to seeker + hf.  

It just "feels" like HF doesn't track as well now and fires slower, but I guess it's just perception.

I don't understand why people call it a noob mech - those seekers do NOT always hit or track super well.  Heck, I still don't understand how they work!  I don't know if they lock on when they launch or if you have to continue tracking target with reticule.  You actually have to learn how to use this mech or you will not be getting any kills with it, and you will probably die a lot as everyone hates rocketeers and will go out of their way to shoot them down

I still don't know how to fire the hellfires at close range either.  Do you try to curve them and by how much_  For long range it's easy, look straight up or to the side and fire away.

Also, with rocketeer, once you get up in their face they are super easy to kill.

Edited by mittens800, February 27 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[Stingz]

mittens800, on February 27 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

This thread is getting funny.

How many posts have we read about "hellfire is OP" "please nerf HF" "omfg hellfire spam so annoying"

And now talk about buffing HF   You'd probably have a riot on your hands at that point.

I only brought this up because that day (this is weeks after the first steam patch), I couldn't seem to hit anything with HF.  Usually I'm pretty ok with it, and it was pretty good against A class mechs on open maps.  With proper positioning, it wasn't too bad to take out even pretty dang good players due to seeker + hf.  

It just "feels" like HF doesn't track as well now and fires slower, but I guess it's just perception.

I don't understand why people call it a noob mech - those seekers do NOT always hit or track super well.  Heck, I still don't understand how they work!  I don't know if they lock on when they launch or if you have to continue tracking target with reticule.  You actually have to learn how to use this mech or you will not be getting any kills with it, and you will probably die a lot as everyone hates rocketeers and will go out of their way to shoot them down

I still don't know how to fire the hellfires at close range either.  Do you try to curve them and by how much_  For long range it's easy, look straight up or to the side and fire away.

Also, with rocketeer, once you get up in their face they are super easy to kill.

Leave the locked mode of Hellfire alone, the unguided Hellfire is awful though and needs help.
Locked Hellfire are useless when people know how to dodge them, while unguided is always awful even in Flak range.

Seeker rockets track by themselves, it's literally point close to the opponent and it will seek for itself.
Useful for long range suppression if there aren't snipers, since seeker tracks as soon as they try to corner-poke.

Flying Rocketeers are extremely hard to take down up close, turreted Rocketeers are scrap metal.

Edited by Stingz, February 27 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[mechpilot6666]

*sharpens pitchfork**lights torch*
I wanted hellfires gone back when I first started playing this game and I still do. Nerf em into the ground and make them completely non viable. If you need a lockon weapon in a game where everything else requires aiming.... well yeah I beat this into the ground a year ago I'm too tired to start it all over again.

If you're having trouble hitting with hellfires I have absolutely no clue what you are doing wrong mittens. Because you actually hit well with other guns. Just put the hellfires down and slowly back away.

EDIt: Oh yeah hellfires have this annoying habit of hitting even when they have clearly been dodged. I've noticed this while playing on tech and watching the entire volley miss a friendly by a quarter mile and he still takes full damage. I love the points for repping but I thought I should mention that.

Edited by mechpilot6666, February 28 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[mittens800]

Can't wait to rocket you next time   muahaha

[mechpilot6666]

You did last night you meanieface. I seriously thought I was going to throw my computer out the window around 11pm when even on USW servers my ping was at 150.... such rage...

Edited by mechpilot6666, March 03 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[Claxus]

Hard to find a general consensus on this weapon... People either hate them for being OP and n00b, or people dislike them for being underpowered.

I think they're fine. An amazing utility of a weapon that despite being a homing weapon, needs thought of the environment more than any other secondary, and need time to lock on, including warning the enemy of such. They arc so tight that it's not even simple to shoot them around corners like you'd hope, and a lot of times a small hill (or any change in altitude) will wreck your missiles on course.

All I want to see is the dumbfire buffed slightly. It's too spazztic and unrewarding... A small damage buff would be nice with dumbfiring, or speed. Make them a little less useless up close and I'm good to go.

[Atmos_Dwagon]

Hellfires are not dueling weapons. They're supposed to be cr*p in CQC.
(Seriously_ That's censored too_ Not even my hyper-religious grandmother is offended by that word.)

TOWs are dueling weapons. Grenades are dueling weapons.
Hellfires aren't, and that's because they're a fire-support type of weapon.

The times I see folks really whining about Hellfires is either when:
1) The whiner doesn't know how to juke.
2) When they're used en-masse, vs targets caught in an open battlefield.

The former is inexcusable, the latter doesn't make them OP, it just makes them better suited for that type of map (a much more consistent fire-support type weapon are the Sabot rifles).
Which is why I'm always shaking my head at those who only do 1 vs 1 comparisons.

Currently, Hellfires are pretty meh to bad on most maps and could use a slight buff to their unfired accuracy.
Apart from that, I like them as they are: Fire Support weapons that actually work in that role.

[Claxus]

Of course, it's not a dueling weapon. The problem is, they aren't just terrible CQC, they're practically useless, you're better off conserving heat for your primary than try to fire them up close, making your DPS laughable. In a game where that situation comes up so often, I think that's too much of a drawback.

Of course, I'm speaking mostly for Bruiser here. Rocketeer's true niche is the missiles, and should usually be staying behind the team with them. But what about Bruiser_ His only primary options are machine guns. If he's not fighting up close, he can only use missiles. Midrange is a sweetspot, but it's extremely common to end up in CQC. He can then only really try to kite and shoot angled lock on missiles, which counteracts against his sustained primary.

We're not asking for TOW damage here, man. We just want it to be not completely useless up close. Either make it a bit more accurate or faster, make it more possible to hit up close and not have a huge deadzone... Right now it becomes dead weight in CQC which is far more than just that c word you used, and secondary damage is half the game. And it's kinda sad when I get the jump on a Rocketeer and stick to them, taking them out while they can't even hit me once. 'Course, that Rocketeer probably was in the wrong place, but for Bruiser who's more of a midfielder, that happens way too often.

I wouldn't mind if Bruiser got modified hellfires... Weaker at range but more usable up close. But even then, I feel even Rocketeer needs a little self defense with them. And that's probably the key word to summarize my post here... I feel hellfires need to be slightly usable for self defense in CQC. Make them weaker up close or do what you will, but I think being able to use them up close as a last resort that's remotely more viable than a slow inaccurate spread is commonplace for a game like this...

[thebloodgod0]

When Hellfires suddenly required skills to use in CQC, people starts to whine. Just use it like other secondaries, aim ahead.