39 replies to this topic

[Phantasmo]

This is mostly about the EOC repeater. I got my Pred into rank 6 and wanted to share some feelings.
I'm noob, total Steam time 102 hours.
I'll get straight to the point:

* Perhaps it's me, but I can't beat anybody other than heavy mechs in a 1vs1 fight. The EOC Repeater has such a low rate of fire that you must hit with every shot. It demands perfect accuracy from the player, but it does not provide such accuracy: recoil makes every shot to move vertically.

* Oddly enough, the mine launcher has perfect accuracy, to the point that you can snipe from absurd distances. Only problem is, the projectile speed is too low and you might get two hits but not more before the other guy moves. And they don't seem to do that much damage. It's definitely not a sniper's choice.

* So this means you can't try to fight other mechs in a 1vs1 since neither the EOC Repeater nor the mine launcher are of any use in such fights. Therefore you can only support.

* Predator's meta game seems to be outdated: mines and pucks would be cool in a CoD game, but they don't really make sense in a game in which you can fly. Many shootouts take place into the air, and such weapons are totally useless there.

* Predator's weapons are no good vs flying enemies. Landmines vs fast moving airborne mechs_ Come on.

* Those mines have a blue light on them, and they don't do that much damage. They are easily avoidable, and you can expect veteran players to do so.

* By the way, both mines and EOC Repeater shots do self damage on detonation, which means the Predator will kill himself if forced to fight at very close range.

* Neither Predator's speed nor flying ability allow him to choose the range of the fight once you have been spotted.

* Invisibility is cool, but: you aren't really invisible and veteran players will see you even at a great distance.
The best part of it is the ability to see through walls, which is great.

* You would think that said invisibility plus the ability to look through walls make him a great lone wolf. Reality however is, the Predator can't take any mech on his own, other than a heavy mech. It lacks both burst and sustained fire, and it also lacks any movement capability.

* A Radar Scrambler is a must if you want to survive. It helps a lot.

So, when all this comes together, you find that the Predator's role in the field when equipped with the EOC Repeater is to support from long range. If you try to engage with said weapon you are going to die 90% of the time.

I think the EOC Repeater is a very cool gun, and it somehow reminds me of the plasma cannon the Predator from the movies has. But it's very, very situational. Some maps will get you a ton of points, but other maps with more open spaces and low obstacles that can be jumped over will not.

I'll welcome any advice you can give me. Thanks for reading.

[VocalMagic]

Veteran Predator are the most deadly players there are.

Their traps won't be layed out on the ground,but on the ceiling or the wall of a corner.And they will nearly one-shot you because of the sheer saturation of all the mines.

The Predator is a "Defense" class mech. Meaning it's not meant for 1-on-1, so stop trying that. The EOC Repeater, however, is a decent couter-sniper weapon. They've got decent accuracy, and if you miss, your mines will be on the sniper's perch, so if they duck down, they're gonna take damage coming back up.

On the subject of 1-on-1. Mines are not suited for that, but are still feasible if you lure them into a choke point or through a trap.

Your cloaking only works if you're not in their line of fire because you'll get outlined on their screen with a red box around you and lit up on radar. This is working as intended, and indeed needed for cloaking to not be OP.

Predator is not meant for Close-range confontrations. He's supposed to be the "utility tool" of the mechs. Area denial, "Don't go through here unless you want to take damage" sort of thing. Stay with your team.

Oh, and your enemy sees the "blue light" as a red light.

[Phantasmo]

I also noticed that guided missiles such as Hellfire will lock on you when you are invisible.
I'm not sure this should be happening.

[Phantasmo]

VocalMagic, on March 22 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

Veteran Predator are the most deadly players there are.

Their traps won't be layed out on the ground,but on the ceiling or the wall of a corner.And they will nearly one-shot you because of the sheer saturation of all the mines.

The Predator is a "Defense" class mech. Meaning it's not meant for 1-on-1, so stop trying that. The EOC Repeater, however, is a decent couter-sniper weapon. They've got decent accuracy, and if you miss, your mines will be on the sniper's perch, so if they duck down, they're gonna take damage coming back up.

On the subject of 1-on-1. Mines are not suited for that, but are still feasible if you lure them into a choke point or through a trap.

Your cloaking only works if you're not in their line of fire because you'll get outlined on their screen with a red box around you and lit up on radar. This is working as intended, and indeed needed for cloaking to not be OP.

Predator is not meant for Close-range confontrations. He's supposed to be the "utility tool" of the mechs. Area denial, "Don't go through here unless you want to take damage" sort of thing. Stay with your team.

Oh, and your enemy sees the "blue light" as a red light.

From my experience, I see a couple mistakes in what you wrote.
First, I'm not looking for 1vs1 fights when I play Predator. But they do happen, and I can't outrun them because the Pred is very slow, and as you already said, once they see you, invisibility is useless.
Second, I can't see why the Predator is a good counter sniper. I played with a Reaper and, well, it is faster, has higher precission and deals a lot more damage. There is no way a Pred beats a sniper on a long range fight.

This was ment as feedback, not as a rant. I'm just writing what I saw in the games I played, and also asking for advice.
If you own a Predator, and are proficient with it, then I'll gladly take your advice.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 22 2014 - 07:47 AM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

I own a Predator, and it's my most played mech ever.  The reason why Pred is considered a 'counter sniper' is because it can mark positions through heat vision and most importantly, it will distract the sniper to only fight him/her.  If the sniper doesn't move when the first surprise attack hits, chances are you're going to win.  That depends on what you do, Predator is meant for defense as Vocal said.  This means you must get creative with your weapons.  If you need more tips, there are a few links on my siggy to help you out.  also NEVER LONE WOLF IT whomever/whatever gave you the idea that Predator is meant for long range killing and lone wolfing is WRONG.  

Some basic tips:

-Stay with your teammates or be ahead a little to scout out enemy positions but never go too far.

-Don't 'snipe', shoot at medium/close range and assist your teammates in killing their enemies.

-Be on the lookout for retreating mechs with low health so you can tear them apart with Breacher's shotgun/EOC Rep's charged mode and mines.

-Enemies that fly, keep em down.

-Don't babysit your traps, look around for enemies to lead them into their death with you trap

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 22 2014 - 08:08 AM.

[DFTR]

This seems accurate.  Predator is a very fun mech to play though it is hard against good teams that really stick together.

With flying mechs, you have to avoid open areas w/ EOC-R and try to pick places where they have to land now and then.  For example, in Facility try to lure them into the underground lab rather than fighting them on the roof.

[VocalMagic]

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

I also noticed that guided missiles such as Hellfire will lock on you when you are invisible.
I'm not sure this should be happening.

It is working as intended.

[Phantasmo]

So basically Predator is about not engaging the enemy.
I must look for retreating enemies but I can't run faster than them. Also, I should stay with my team. Both things are not compatible.
Neither it is to stick with my team and look for enemies I can use my traps on.
The heat vision has very short range. If you want to spot enemies the Scout does that better because of the long radar range.

How do I exactly keep down flying enemies_ It's not like they are afraid of my weapons.

Predator would make sense if the whole game was different. As it is now: why would I play Predator, run away from the enemy and be happy to assist when I can pick a Berserker or a Scout and get actual kills_

Edit: by the way, after writing the initial post, I played Raider and got several kills, with him. Lvl 1 Raider, no items etc.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 22 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[Phantasmo]

Also, if the Predator is a support mech, does anybody actually need Predator support_
Which mech would you like to cover your back, a Predator or a Tech_

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

So basically Predator is about not engaging the enemy.
I must look for retreating enemies but I can't run faster than them. Also, I should stay with my team. Both things are not compatible.
You must find the balance between the two, hence why I said don't stray too far.
Neither it is to stick with my team and look for enemies I can use my traps on.
You set traps beforehand and have your team funnel enemies to you, or note where the enemy likes to run off to and set traps there, as I said earlier, you must balance between scouting, supporting your team, and setting/springing traps.
The heat vision has very short range. If you want to spot enemies the Scout does that better because of the long radar range.
If it could see much farther, that would be OP.  You can carry around a scanner with you to help you out.
How do I exactly keep down flying enemies_ It's not like they are afraid of my weapons.
Fight them in tunnels or anything that prohibits them from flying (this is much harder since there isn't many tight spaces)
Predator would make sense if the whole game was different.
Predator fights differently than other mechs, it's a hard mech to master.  This is why people who try out predator at first stink with it most of the time.
As it is now: why would I play Predator, run away from the enemy and be happy to assist when I can pick a Berserker or a Scout and get actual kills_
Hawken is not all about kills, it's about TEAMWORK.  This isn't COD and BF4.  Just because you didn't get many kills but made CRITICAL assists or keep enemies heads down or kept them panicking, that's what matters.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 22 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[Phantasmo]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on March 22 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

So basically Predator is about not engaging the enemy.
I must look for retreating enemies but I can't run faster than them. Also, I should stay with my team. Both things are not compatible.
You must find the balance between the two, hence why I said don't stray too far.
Neither it is to stick with my team and look for enemies I can use my traps on.
You set traps beforehand and have your team funnel enemies to you, or note where the enemy likes to run off to and set traps there, as I said earlier, you must balance between scouting, supporting your team, and setting/springing traps.
The heat vision has very short range. If you want to spot enemies the Scout does that better because of the long radar range.
If it could see much farther, that would be OP.  You can carry around a scanner with you to help you out.
How do I exactly keep down flying enemies_ It's not like they are afraid of my weapons.
Fight them in tunnels or anything that prohibits them from flying (this is much harder since there isn't many tight spaces)
Predator would make sense if the whole game was different.
Predator fights differently than other mechs, it's a hard mech to master.  This is why people who try out predator at first stink with it most of the time.
As it is now: why would I play Predator, run away from the enemy and be happy to assist when I can pick a Berserker or a Scout and get actual kills_
Hawken is not all about kills, it's about TEAMWORK.  This isn't COD and BF4.  Just because you didn't get many kills but made CRITICAL assists or keep enemies heads down or kept them panicking, that's what matters.

Sorry I can't read red text over gray.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on March 22 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

So basically Predator is about not engaging the enemy.
I must look for retreating enemies but I can't run faster than them. Also, I should stay with my team. Both things are not compatible.
You must find the balance between the two, hence why I said don't stray too far.
Neither it is to stick with my team and look for enemies I can use my traps on.
You set traps beforehand and have your team funnel enemies to you, or note where the enemy likes to run off to and set traps there, as I said earlier, you must balance between scouting, supporting your team, and setting/springing traps.
The heat vision has very short range. If you want to spot enemies the Scout does that better because of the long radar range.
If it could see much farther, that would be OP.  You can carry around a scanner with you to help you out.
How do I exactly keep down flying enemies_ It's not like they are afraid of my weapons.
Fight them in tunnels or anything that prohibits them from flying (this is much harder since there isn't many tight spaces)
Predator would make sense if the whole game was different.
Predator fights differently than other mechs, it's a hard mech to master.  This is why people who try out predator at first stink with it most of the time.
As it is now: why would I play Predator, run away from the enemy and be happy to assist when I can pick a Berserker or a Scout and get actual kills_
Hawken is not all about kills, it's about TEAMWORK.  This isn't COD and BF4.  Just because you didn't get many kills but made CRITICAL assists or keep enemies heads down or kept them panicking, that's what matters.

Sorry I can't read red text over gray.

Sorry, I edited it to be darker, I hope you can read it now.  

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 22 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[Silverfire]

Eoc doesn't have that much recoil. As a matter of fact, I don't think it does at all. The only reasons why it wouldn't fly straight and true is if you moved either your mech or hand.



Try that, watch the EOC. Long snipe-y shots were pretty much 100% accuracy provided I didn't move my aim.

[Phantasmo]

There is some recoil actually. My tests show exactly the opposite.
I can't explain your video, when I do the same with the Predator, the last shots go a bit up.

How old is that video_ Perhaps the weapon has changed and it's not in the change log. It wouldn't be the first time some changes go unnoticed.

I'll take some screenshots.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 22 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[Silverfire]

The video is a week old, nothing new has been introduced since. Even if there is a tiny bit, it doesn't affect snipe-y shots at all.

[Phantasmo]

I can't post Steam pictures but here are the links:

http://cloud-2.steam...ABF956BE981A64/

http://cloud-2.steam...33C3324FE42897/


At that distance I think 1/3 of the shots will miss the target.
A SS or a Reaper will still hit you with his two weapons.

It's not that much of a recoil but when fighting a sniper it does matter.

Still, the point is: a Predator won't fight a sniper better than another sniper would do.

Some mechs are "defensive" other are "support" but it seems that some other mechs just do fine in any circumstance.
There are some mechs that will do fine when fighting other mechs in 1vs1, they can defend (because they can kill other mechs) they can support (the ultimate support is to kill the enemy) etc.

And then there are some other like the Predator that don't seem to be good at nothing and therefore they are labelled as support and must stay aside.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 22 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

*snip*

What you're seeing is actually just the spread of the pucks. It's not actually recoil.

[Silverfire]

I've run tests where I've hit another mech with a full EOC charge across the entire map of Origin, 100% accuracy, as confirmed by the other player, saying the amount of damage dealt and it was in accordance with a full charged EOC. (I don't have screenshots, but it happened). The spread is very small and shouldn't affect at all.

Maybe the counter sniper isn't working because the Predator isn't designed for that kind of range. Get behind the sniper, suprise it. Don't fight it at its optimal range, fight in your optimal range.

Using your logic regarding support, the Tech then is useless because its support isn't killing an enemy. Support is pretty essential in this game.

I refer to the Defensive and support capabilities of the Predator as more of a zoning type mech that can lay traps. People see traps_ They tend to move away from them. Lay them in a fashion where they move towards your team. When you see a big fight going on between your team and thr enemy, pepper the area with mines, deal some damage and get some assists. If you want the kill because you seem so obsessed about the kills, don't lay them in obvious positions, like on the floor. An idiot can see it. Rather,lay them in less obvious places, like around corners or right around the exit of a tunnel. I've instagibbed so many A classes hiding a full trap around a corner. Fight in tunnels or places with low ceilings so they can't fly as much. Lay traps on jump pads, it's hard to seeit there and people don't expect it there either.

I also avoid 1v1 situations because this mech isn't built for it. You also have a team, use them and help them. This isn't your run of the mill FPS where you can lone wolf, you need to stick to your team and help them out because that is how you win.

The mech is useful and effective, I just don't think you're using it properly.

Edited by Silverfire, March 22 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Try to take heed of Silverfire, Vocal, and my advice.  I know that Predator is a real hard mech to learn, but it can really shine if you do it right.  If you need anymore tips, you can pm me.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 22 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[Phantasmo]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on March 22 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Try to take heed of Silverfire, Vocal, and my advice.  I know that Predator is a real hard mech to learn, but it can really shine if you do it right.  If you need anymore tips, you can pm me.

Getting assists will not make you shine, period.

I can do that. I can finish a game having 0 deaths and many assists. Hiding behind the team is not that difficult, and I've done it many times.
It just feels useless. I know if I was using other mechs I would had got much more kills, which is the important thin in the end, not for my ego but for winning the game.

I used to play other mechs, Assault, Bruiser, Reaper and Incinerator. I can wreak havoc with the first two. With the Pred... I can lay mines.
Great.

By the way, in my experience players will just jump over the mines. And they normally avoid tunnels, not just because there's a Predator but because TOW and other explosives are deadly in a tunnel.

Anyway, thanks everybody for your input, I read it all and took note of your point of view.