39 replies to this topic

[XyXly]

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Getting assists will not make you shine, period.

But it will make the rest of the team shine, the damage you deal will make it easier for the rest of the team to finish him off. If you don't want to play a class which is made for supporting the team, then play a different mech that's made for kills.

[Phantasmo]

XyXly, on March 22 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Getting assists will not make you shine, period.

But it will make the rest of the team shine, the damage you deal will make it easier for the rest of the team to finish him off. If you don't want to play a class which is made for supporting the team, then play a different mech that's made for kills.

And is the Predator better than, say, a Bruiser at that_
No it is not.

There are support mechs and there are mechs that don't do anything good and therfore are labelled as support.
The Tech is true support. Predator is not, it's ment to do damage but it fails at that. So it's said to be support.
Why would I pick a mech that does 50% damage when I can play a mech that does 100% damage_

The Scout is the real ambush mech. He comes out of nowhere, blasts you with his zillion damage weapons then leaves.
Predator does some damage, does not kill anybody, then hides. The other guy leaves the place, and that's all.

[mccrorie]

I must sympathise with Phantasmo. The Predator right now plays in such a contrived fashion it cannot honestly be considered a balanced mech. For the record I like using it and do so a lot, but I feel bad sometimes because I know it's fa easier and more effective to simply use a different mech. For example, last night I played Raider for the first time and was racking up kills and assists and had a blast doing it. That's what matters. And I have next to NO experience with this mech compared to a rank 6 predator with a lot of exp-overflow. The effort vs reward aspect makes the predator look really bad. It needs a little love.

[DFTR]

Predator just needs a little love; we don't want to make him OP!

Cloak should not allow for lock-ons (tech beams or hellfires).
There should be a little less heat generation w/ EOC-P mines.
I wouldn't mind the sound being a bit muted too so it didn't sound so obnoxious.  

This thread also details several issues regarding the traps/mines:
https://community.pl...g-the-predator/

It does suck that your friendlies can prematurely detonate your mines

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Looking at the OP's complaints and all, it might be a little too challenging to play.  I have a feeling they won't buff Predator, it's been out for awhile now.  There has been more 'Buff the Predator-like' threads these days.  This could tell the Devs that Predator is too hard to play for people.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 22 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[mccrorie]

DFTR: I wasn't playing Hawken during that period (Steam got me back in) so I'm unaware of how, if at all, the Predator has changed since then.

For the record I would start with some simple changes (outside technical issues like improper detonation) and wouldn't change the weapons (except T32, I have no idea what to do with this)

- Faster walk speed
- Better Flying ability

Reason_ This mech is analagous to the movie character of the same name. Despite its size this character moves very swiftly and can scale great heights with ease in order to observe its surroundings. The mechanized character is not good at this, and when cloaked has great trouble keeping up with its allies and stalking prey without crabbing everywhere, which is not an elegant solution. Additionally, flying is a boon when setting mines as you can more appropriately pick a spot on the ground when elevated. Trying to place distant mines accurately from ground level is problematic as the slightest movement in the reticule significantly shifts the placement of mines in relation to each other.

Edited by mccrorie, March 22 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Phantasmo]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on March 22 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Looking at the OP's complaints and all, it might be a little too challenging to play.  I have a feeling they won't buff Predator, it's been out for awhile now.  There has been more 'Buff the Predator-like' threads these days.  This could tell the Devs that Predator is too hard to play for people.

No, I will repeat it for you. The problem is not being challenging to play.
The problem is it's design is flawed.
What exactly is there to be mastered_ Leading shots with the EOC R_
How is supposed to be in the hands of an expert_ Can an expert make flying mechs stay grounded so they walk over the mines rather than flying over them_
Can a veteran player increase Breacher's ridiculously low rate of fire_
Can an expert make the Hellfire don't lock on the Predator_

Predator has the lowest HP pool of all B class mechs, except the Raider and SS. Why is this so_ Normally, slow mechs have higher HP pools. Predator is not only slow in it's stats but in it's design: running disables the cloak.

And what exactly is a "defense mech" and how is it better defending a missile silo than one that just kills people fast_ It's not like his DPS nor burst damage can scare anybody away.
How many mines can you shoot in the less than three seconds that takes a TOW to reload_ If you scored a hit with all of them, would they deliver as much damage as a TOW_ No, by no means.

And what good are mines against mechs that will fight you while airborne_

The Predator can only work from behind your team line. But then, wouldn't a different special ability help him more there_ I've spent whole games without activating the cloak because I had no need to do it: since the enemy was worried with my mates I didn't have to cloak.

So, we have:
* A slower than average B-class mech which
* also has a smaller than average HP pool. Both things together make little sense but anyway.
* He's supposed to be close enough to the team to avoid 1vs1 fights, which the Predator will lose 90% of the time.
* However, he's given a special ability that only makes sense when stalking somebody very close.
* As a matter of fact, Predator's default and first unlocked weapons are close combat weapons. But wasn't this a support mech, not intended to get close to the enemy_
* Close combat, you know, when fuzzy bunny gets real and you either kill or get killed. Predator is going to lose because even his close combat weapons aren't really useful: very, very slow RoF. You need to score a hit with each shot because missing just one means the other guy will win the DPS war.
* So he must support from afar. But seriously, wouldn't an Assault or CRT do much better with their TOW and AR than with a minefield_ Long range speaking, what scares you most_ Facing a Reaper/SS or a Predator's EOC R_


Predator has a strange mix of features and he doesn't shine in either role.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 22 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[HatesYourFace]

Edited by HatesYourFace, March 25 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[mccrorie]

It was funny the first time. This is just spam.

[Bazookagofer]

HatesYourFace, on March 25 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Lol... I like it.

Anyway I think the predator needs to be brought to the drawing board. I don't fear the thing at all, and the times a predators mines killed me i can count on 1 hand.  what the point of using pred if I can be just as sneaky with other mechs by just walking _ Or better yet just use infil which has cloak + burst+speed which are essential for a "predator". And the predators mines can be blown up by anything (friend or foe i believe but might need confirmation). Too much variables involved for it to be any good in my opinion.

[Lightangel112]

Predator has a lot of things needing attention too, but I still love using it

I use breacher though, EOC R is just plain brass to play with competitively.

Edited by Lightangel112, March 25 2014 - 05:44 PM.

[DFTR]

So much for the crab walks/dashes.  Dodging takes you out of cloak and there's a bigger delay in fuel regeneration after a dodge.

[Hellrazer_001]

I would like to see if they are not going to give the Pred a real Buff, that they at least make Mines harder to see, Mines can not be blown up by firing on them, by enemy or Friend, and can not be blown up by your own EOC Repeater shots, and that the Heat is toned down just a fraction, so you at least have a chance to kill someone before you overheat, also cluster mine deployment, would be nice.

Oh and definately that Hellfires can not lock onto a cloaked Predator, I am finding more and more, that Mechs with hellfires are just spamming the Key and picking you up all the time.

Predator, Love it and Hate it, but cant stop playing it!

EDIT

Actually after playing for a few hours its not too bad, have been kicking ass, might be because there seems to be alot of raw recruits around

Edited by Hellrazer_001, March 28 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[teeth_03]

So I just started playing the Pred yesterday, I'm not sure what the big deal is.

You just sneak behind a lone enemy and lay mines behind them then open fire close with the Breacher uncharged.

Granted, it feels more like a novelty mech that's fun to play but won't be topping score boards in most cases. The 'shotgun' on it feels pretty strong if you get close enough, but the Charged Breacher feels a little weak compared to the RoF it has, I may like the T-32 more once I unlock it.

Its fun to play on Prosk (the map with the Highway in the middle), where the enemy likes to snipe from the highway ramps, you sneak around and any mines behind them without them noticing and watch as they comes back down the ramp to repair.

[McBonY]

teeth_03, on March 28 2014 - 02:31 AM, said:

So I just started playing the Pred yesterday, I'm not sure what the big deal is.

(...)

The deal is, people read "Predator" and think about that big alien that shreds everything to pieces (except certain bodybuilder with funny accent), and expect the mech to do the same.

I think name is the main problem here. Mech should be called "Bully", it would reflect it's role much better ;]

[Hellrazer_001]

The Provoker, The Tormentor, The Annoyer, The Shoot and Runawayer

[Odinous]

after the new march update,the predator is even more fun to play with,and ofc get on top of the board,though the weapon that fits him more now is the t32(thank god it was my weap of choice to top him out).I played yesterday after the new patch,dont even know how many matches,on most of them my predator was top scored,so please learn how to use it,check guides,check videos etc.even on 1vs1 he can manage perfectly though as I said,for me the trick is t32..
Someone stated th nam is wrong,even in the movie,"predator" was vey patient on his kills,and playing this mech needs brains

Edited by Odinous, March 28 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[Hellrazer_001]

Odinous, on March 28 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

after the new march update,the predator is even more fun to play with,and ofc get on top of the board,though the weapon that fits him more now is the t32(thank god it was my weap of choice to top him out).I played yesterday after the new patch,dont even know how many matches,on most of them my predator was top scored,so please learn how to use it,check guides,check videos etc.even on 1vs1 he can manage perfectly though as I said,for me the trick is t32..
Someone stated th nam is wrong,even in the movie,"predator" was vey patient on his kills,and playing this mech needs brains

I have to agree I have been kicking ass all night, after my awful first mission, but there are a heck of a lot of Noobie players at the moment. I use the EOC Repeater though, as my main weapon, and have been on the top of the score chart 70% of the night and the rest in the top 2 or 3, so i am liking my Pred even more at the moment.

Edited by Hellrazer_001, March 28 2014 - 06:58 AM.

[IroncladLion]

Phantasmo, I completely agree with everything you said.

Some stuff people seem to be getting a bit wrong:

Hawken is designed to be a competitive squad based game of 6v6. And every mech is supposed to be 'balanced' and have its role in a team effort. Yes, the Predator does more than nothing for a team, it can maybe lure an enemy through a choke point and kill it, It can maybe snipe an escaping mech with the breacher, and it can maybe sneak up behind a repairing enemy and shoot it in the back. Please understand that there is already a mech in the game that can do any of those things just as well. And just because some really experienced players managed to do well in it doesn't mean that 'hurr durr if you aren't doing well in the Predator you don't know how to use it'. Seriously. Stop. That same experienced player could just play a scout, berserker, or infiltrator and be twice as useful. ALSO, don't say anything about how it's supposed to be a 'defense' mech because it's in the defense category. You know what else is in the defense category_ The scout.

So, wipe away the categories of mechs and their 'intended' use on the battlefield. Now look at the Predator and tell me that it is a competitive mech. Sure, you can kill new players with it and do great, I've done that plenty as well, that means nothing. I've played in matches where I was at the top of the scoreboard in the Predator with stats of 6/2/18, you know what_ We lost. Because I happened to get a crappy team. I've also played in matches where I went 8/0/24, and won! Guess what, I was at the bottom of the score board. The point is, it wasn't me who was making a difference in the game, it was my team. It doesn't matter how well I played the Predator, my team would have won / lost anyways. In fact if I had played a different class I probably could have helped my team more.

So please, at least talk about the Predator like it wasn't in the 'defense' category. And try to actually help in the process of improving the mech and putting out ideas rather than bashing those who have legitimate concerns.

Thank you for reading.

[deadlydime]

I too play the predator and find it frustrating but do love his mechanic and am determined to get better.

I think a good idea would be a temporary damage buff that procs when coming out of cloak and has a cooldown_