179 replies to this topic

[Dew]

Deaod, on May 14 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

Dew, on May 13 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

Competitive matches without techs actually have lower kill counts on average. This has been tested and proven. Believe it or not, the game slows down when you remove the tech.

How about you dont play TDM in competitive games_ That would fix just about any stagnation, because if you want to win a Missile Assault match, you have to be active.

You act as if MA wasn't the go-to game mode in scrims for months.

[LONEDEADWOLF]

Glad many of you like the tech and all but have great ideas,,,That's why i love this community...Crazy nut jobs and so lovingly smart...lol seriously guys you guys are great and for that i truly do admire you all even if we disagree on things...Thanks

Just so tired of being part of a snowball or the receiver of the snowball effect....it empties servers and leaves most players including the winners with a bad perspective of how truly great the game is....just my opinion based on what folks say after the games with techs...

[Fstroke]

Dew, on May 14 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Deaod, on May 14 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

Dew, on May 13 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

Competitive matches without techs actually have lower kill counts on average. This has been tested and proven. Believe it or not, the game slows down when you remove the tech.

How about you dont play TDM in competitive games_ That would fix just about any stagnation, because if you want to win a Missile Assault match, you have to be active.

You act as if MA wasn't the go-to game mode in scrims for months.

Im not even going to get in to how this was tested and "proven" but I think the kill count is almost irrelevant. Im more interested in whether or not people moved around the map more, class diversity, and strategies used. Or was it still just 2 deathballs grinding eachother down until one was weakened enough to advance.

[Deaod]

Dew, on May 14 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Deaod, on May 14 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

Dew, on May 13 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

Competitive matches without techs actually have lower kill counts on average. This has been tested and proven. Believe it or not, the game slows down when you remove the tech.

How about you dont play TDM in competitive games_ That would fix just about any stagnation, because if you want to win a Missile Assault match, you have to be active.

You act as if MA wasn't the go-to game mode in scrims for months.

This page prescribes TDM for matches within the league. I assumed everyone on the US side just followed that template for competitive matches.

[LU0P10]

It is not a matter of as how much I hate Tech but... in deep down - how much I love this game after all... and don't want it to die away...

...sorry to say... damage has been done over a year ago

[Sylhiri]

draco7891, on May 14 2014 - 12:51 AM, said:

Stuff.

You'd be right if the entire team wasn't protecting the tech and he couldn't dodge. Your long range mechs are kept in check by the sharpshooter. Any sneaky flanking runs into an E situation because the radar system is idiotic, so it ends up being A or not attempted at all to avoid feeding kills. Also  do to the sticky nature of the weapon he can travel from cover to cover and still be healing, plus  shields and baricades. If more then two mechs from the other team goes around to flank then the enemy team finds a new position or steamrolls the remaining mechs, goes back to finish the rest of the team after healing up to full and repositions while the other team respawns around the map. I'm not entirely sure which matches you play but the only thing more common then this is B.

I do see the reason why techs can quicken tdm games as the low ttk, massive radar advantage and even bad map design (see uptowns turtle room) can put both teams into a defensive position, which the tech also helps with. Pushing with a tech lowers the risk of melting but the problem still remains the game revolving around one mech. Hell, I've heard of talk from the high tier players of a team comp with 1 tech and the rest B and C's if the rules didn't state they had to use a second A mech.

Edited by Sylhiri, May 14 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[angryhampster]

i never liked technicians from the beginning.  it was very disgusting, but during that time was the release of FRONT LINE in which i really liked. .   it changed the entire game.   we can either have one or the other

completely remove "HEALING  "C",   or completely remove the technician.

but as an veteran player, technicians do not bother too much, unless their hugging an incinerantor or brawler, but I know how frustrating it is for players who have it rough against these little buggahs.


with technicians, it's like a world of warcraft 5v5 ARENA game.    the team with 2 healers tend to win over the other team with DPS, almost  90% of the time.

[palad1ne]

Dont want to be the Mr. I know it for long but ffs. Over a Year i preach that this Game need Class Restrictions. Everytime the obvious celebrities coming into the thread and BSing about, that this would break Game mechanics. What a Nonsense. A year after my first Posting about this point, there are several discussions about this.

Class Restriction for sniper and Techs would cure many of the problems we have in Matchmaking. Additional the split of shared Weapons between classes. Every Class should have his own Weapons. so every Weapon can be individual adjusted by Devs. It would be so much easier then this "put on finger out and stuff 3 fingers in" method we enjoy every patch. Also, to spare dev time, it would be easy to make Weapon categories. S M X and ffs XL Version. Like on the G2 Mechs. So you dont need another model and Animation. Easy peasy.

This two things are not breaking any game Mechanics but it would help a lot for smoother gameplay.

[EliteShooter]

LONEDEADWOLF, on May 14 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

just my opinion based on what folks say after the games with techs...

So true, I mean, myself, I'm trying to improve my tech skills those days, and since I can do well with it at healing and get kills at the same time, people start raging and fuzzy bunny, and well, I can do anything about it, cuz if I change to infiltrator, then they will rage even more and will call me a wall-hacker (I look at the radar, what a sin), and a speed hacker (I do side boosts and dodges combinations) and a lot of other fuzzy bunny things, and they never stop saying so. People are like that, they can't understand the fact that there are more skilled players. I can't blame a guy complaining about lag or high ping even tho he's close from server (myself, in the day, I get 220 in UK, even tho I'm supposed to be get 80-85) ... but I do blame people who waste the time during and after the game talking fuzzy bunny to techs or hellfires players or snipers or preds or whatever.

A quick solution is to mute everyone who disturbs you, and more importantly, play with friends, it's just great to play with friends.

[EliteShooter]

palad1ne, on May 14 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Dont want to be the Mr. I know it for long but ffs. Over a Year i preach that this Game need Class Restrictions. Everytime the obvious celebrities coming into the thread and BSing about, that this would break Game mechanics. What a Nonsense. A year after my first Posting about this point, there are several discussions about this.

Class Restriction for sniper and Techs would cure many of the problems we have in Matchmaking. Additional the split of shared Weapons between classes. Every Class should have his own Weapons. so every Weapon can be individual adjusted by Devs. It would be so much easier then this "put on finger out and stuff 3 fingers in" method we enjoy every patch. Also, to spare dev time, it would be easy to make Weapon categories. S M X and ffs XL Version. Like on the G2 Mechs. So you dont need another model and Animation. Easy peasy.

This two things are not breaking any game Mechanics but it would help a lot for smoother gameplay.

Yea class restrictions are a MUST devs, please understand this, the only exception is that what's already in the team is the only thing a certain player has, so there will be 2 of it (rarely 3).

[Z3roCool007]

Rei, on May 13 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

6v6, Bunker, Sharpshooters only

[ScottRidley]

palad1ne, on May 14 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Over a Year i preach that this Game need Class Restrictions.

Solving one problem, creating another:

What if the people who are hogging a class (SS, Tech, ...) suck_ Or what if a player doesn't have the needed mech (because they haven't bought it yet)_ What if you want to play a specific class (i.e. Grenadier because it's your bad-aim-day)_ Well fuzzy bunny, you're out of luck_ What about trolls that pick a class and then go hide to deny their team the win_

A vote system would be a fix, which would open another avenue for abuse. For organized matches, good idea. Generally, not so much.

[Planerunner]

I see this post was originally started to incite a reaction (aka, trollbait). DEMANDING that an entire mech be completely removed from the game (not revamped, not tweaked, not reworked, REMOVED) is not typically a good way to start a discussion. Especially after a developer has RECENTLY stated that said mech will NOT be removed. But it will quickly start words nonetheless.

However, I'm impressed and encouraged by the reaction from the community! MANY people here understand why the healing mechanic is in the game in the first place (not just the Tech). I suppose I should explain why the healing mechanic is in the game so those who don't know understand why it isn't going away: to increase the possible number of fair engagements, thereby increasing the player's dopamine levels. This hooks them into the game even further. It is the gameplay equivalent of adding sugar or caffeine to food.

Healing in any FPS is meant to do one thing: increase the possible number and quality of fair engagements in a match. That's what the mechanic does. The standard healing mechanic is a health powerup. The player runs over or near a powerup which spawns in the game world (traditionally, this was in a specific map location). At first, this was an instant heal.There have also been other variations to spice up gameplay, such as the Heal Over Time (HOT).

The Healer concept in an FPS accelerates this mechanic further by adding a 2nd player, and putting healing on wheels. Instead of running to a preset location somewhere on the map, and THEN standing in one place to get a healing powerup, the Tech follows the damaged player and ACCELERATES them into their next engagement. It cuts down on potential wasted time and creates even more engagements in the match. It also provides a new role for players who like playing backfield support.

The key here is there are *2* players, not one. It automatically causes TEAMWORK, which is another sticky mechanic that further pulls the players into the game and revs up their dopamine even more. The match is more fun when they have a teammate watching each other's back. This FORCES enemy players to also team up . . . or die (more often). Failure to heed this obvious mechanic (don't engage in a 2 vs 1, son) often results in lone wolves saying 'this is unfair'. It forces those players to make a decision: smarten up and don't engage in a 2 vs 1, bring friends (and a healer) of your own, or get good enough to take down a 2 vs 1 situation. Dumber players who refuse to learn or increase their skills are churned out of the game's population while increasingly smarter and more generally cooperative players fill out the ranks.

Welcome to game dev 101.

[Brycko]

I'm sure I can't be the only one who realizes this, but sometimes, if you don't have water to fight the fire, you have to fight fire with fire. They have a technician, then you get a technician. Otherwise, fight it with an Incinerator. Make the technician overheat and defenseless. It'll break like a stick.

I do have to agree, they can be pretty OP, though. The repair torch should overheat much more easily.

[ScottRidley]

Brycko, on May 14 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

[...] fight fire with fire. [...] fight it with an Incinerator.

Hurrhurrhurr I see what you did there. Good one.











Sarcasm aside, see page 1 and 2

Edited by ScottRidley, May 14 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[ShadowWarg]

Krellus, on May 14 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

ShadowWarg, on May 13 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

If the problem people have with the tech is that its a healer in a mech shooter, then I'm sorry to say that you guys are out of luck, the tech isn't going anywhere. NOW, if your problem with the tech is how it actually functions, as in HOW its heal/damages or its ability. Then you have a better chance at seeing it changed than you do seeing it removed. I feel energy would be better spend trying to get the tech changed in some way rather than trying to get it removed.

If the tech's healing (not inc vamp) was to spit out a healing orb every now and then, it would be better, bec the orb at least is stationary. If they wont delete the tech, at least change how it heals.

Maybe even something equivalent to the GL, firing a arking healing shot that explodes and heals within a radius that feathers over distance, healing both allies and enemies. (why enemies also_ so a tech cant just lob healing shots in a general area where there is an intense fight and give one team a complete advantage)

edit:
No cockpit tonight_ In a way I feel like that would be the perfect place to brain storm alternative tech healing or in battle support ideas.

Edited by ShadowWarg, May 14 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[Onebullit]

@Planerunner

What are you even talking about __

What's wrong with removing a mech from the game_
Didn't Adhesive already remove internals from the game that many people have
bought with MC.  Don't believe them pls because a company will do whatever they want when
they want it, i know, because i work in one and do alot of research.....chiching$$$

If its convenient enough for them
be sure that they won't just think "Oh, but 1000 players have bought the Technician with MC",
"Oh lordy, what shall we do, uhm, uhm, ......."

They would give you some kind of explenation and remove the damn thing from the game.

It's theft anyway, (just like the Incinirator model.)

[eth0]

Dew, on May 13 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

eth0, on May 13 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Wraithknight, on May 13 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

The technician, whether you want to accept it or not, is completely necessary for this game to not become a stagnate pew-pew fest.

I can't tell if you're kidding.

Tech promotes defense on their team and usually forces the other team to kill it before anything else. God save them if there is incin or... 2 techs. *dun DUN dunnn*

Competitive matches without techs actually have lower kill counts on average. This has been tested and proven. Believe it or not, the game slows down when you remove the tech.

Know anybody who'd like to do it again_ I'd be interested if there are any recordings to seeing how people are playing. Do pilots play less risky without a tech at their back_ How do kill counts compare between teams_
Using a tech makes it easier to clean-up a team since you can heal as you follow the retreat, instead of the other team healing and preparing for the next encounter. Recipe for a steamroll_ Maybe just in pubs. Is the tech so necessary for charges because of relatively low health_

So, I'm not the technicians biggest fan, but I'm rooting for some change. Now I have some ideas to chew on afk as to how that change would work.

[ShadowWarg]

Onebullit, on May 14 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

@Planerunner

What are you even talking about __

What's wrong with removing a mech from the game_
Didn't Adhesive already remove internals from the game that many people have
bought with MC.  Don't believe them pls because a company will do whatever they want when
they want it, i know, because i work in one and do alot of research.....chiching$$$

If its convenient enough for them
be sure that they won't just think "Oh, but 1000 players have bought the Technician with MC",
"Oh lordy, what shall we do, uhm, uhm, ......."

They would give you some kind of explenation and remove the damn thing from the game.

It's theft anyway, (just like the Incinirator model.)

Thats the thing, its not more convenient for them to remove the tech. Quite a few people like what a healing mech has to offer the game, but don't like how the tech heals. Also if you remove the tech, you are alienating those players that like to play a role that isn't straight up pew pewing, and worse of all, you enrage those that actually paid for something and word of mouth spreads about the game in the worst possible way.

Even with the internals its not like they completely removed them, they were replaced and players reimbursed.

[Planerunner]

Quote

What's wrong with removing a mech from the game_

If I had a dime every time someone DEMANDED the devs do something NOW to accommodate MY NEEDS NOW threads, I'd be a very, very , very rich man.