51 replies to this topic

[TwentyFirstPilot]

Edit: Yes, I try to be a sneaky rotter, but there are times when I am forced into a fair fight. I realize that the Pred is not meant for those fights. Its subtitle 'Ambush Vehicle' is pretty indicative of that.



Greetings!


A few days ago, I bought the Predator. I enjoy it. Coming from the Reaper, it didn't seem to hard to get used to.

However, I've reached a problem. I've found that it's extremely difficult for me to destroy another mech in a 'fair' fight. That being, a fight where both players spot each other at the same time. Bonus points if my foe is an A class with air compressor.

If a fight turns into a peek a boo battle, I get demolished if I can't find a way to put a bit of range between me and my opponent. If my opponent starts to fly, my secondary is pretty ineffective. If I engage my opponent outside of a cramped area, it's likely he'll be able to boost away from me right after I deliver my alpha strike. On occasion, those opponents even manage to take me out.

I'm not one of those 'special' players who wishes everything that kills him to be nerfed. I'm just trying to figure out how to make this mech work for me. I like, it's really neat. I can sometimes go on 13 killstreaks and get MVP. However, recently I've felt a bit frustrated. It seems as if I require bad players and a decent amount of luck to do anything substantial with the Pred.


I run advanced reconstructor, advanced failsafe, and shock coils. I don't have any items yet, save for the default flashbang, but I plan to buy MK 3 detonators (to augment my corner play abilities and to give me a better chance against flying A classes). I've mostly been using the Breacher, but earlier today I bought the Repeater, as its high alpha potential looked alluring to me, and I find the Breacher a little clunky (though effective). I've read through Lightangel's ultimate Predator guide (maybe I need to do so a second time_), and my MMR sits at 1750 (in case you wish to get a general idea when it comes to the levels of those I fight against). If you're so inclined to wince and correct the mistakes I make (and I welcome that), add me as a friend in game.

So, veteran Predator pilots of Illal, how can I correct the mistakes I'm making, and are my observations on the Pred accurate_


21st

Edited by TwentyFirstPilot, May 31 2014 - 04:21 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

I believe you're fighting the wrong way.  Check the Predator guide in my signature section below.

[Desert_Fox2]

I did fight with you this morning. I was the HEAT Scout. I didn't get many 1v1s with you. I was kind of shooting everything as fast as I could. I did notice that you had some nice kill streaks.

Just a few things that I noticed in your post. The EOC Repeater does have a high burst damage. However, that doesn't come out in one big ball of fury. It comes out in the form of pucks. To land every single puck you have to think of it differently. Think of it as if you had 300 ping and had to constantly lead off your shots with the SMC. It isn't that easy at first. I would suggest picking up a mech with the option for a HEAT cannon. Makes the change to EOC a little bit easier.

The Breacher, imo, is one of the scariest weapons in the game. Right up there with the HEAT and SARRE(man I hate that thing). It is viable at many ranges, with a fair amount of potential damage. When it is charged it also penetrates a shield. On a side note it is hilarious when some guy in a recruit, who you are chasing, has a "brilliant" idea and drops a shield; however, you just charge up and kill him. Okay, back on topic. The Breacher is hitscan, which makes it very deadly with corner play. I will normally back off if I have to get in a corner fight against a Pred. Unless that Pred goes crazy and tries to be offensive. Then you just kill them. In a corner fight don't expose more of your mech than you have to.

I would not suggest getting the Mk3 dets. It isn't the best choice. At the very least get some EMPs. If you are cloaked you can throw an EMP and alpha strike. Then you have them.

I am not an expert or really good in the Pred. Yet, I do know the weapons and how to use them.

I could help you with corner play. Corner play is universal to all mechs; I am rather good at that, at least. lol

[Coboxite]

Don't play fair as a Pred. Take enemies from behind, pick off the weak, throw up as many traps as you can, be a discrete as possible. If you must take on an enemy in a fair, tip it in your favor in anyway possible, and remember, the EOC-P does full damage no matter where or how it hits, so long as it hits at all. Above all else, be the ass-hole on the server.
If you want to tip the odds a little for face to face combat, go with the T-32, it already goes well with the fail safe you already have, and has the fastest fire rate of all Pred primaries.

Edited by Coboxite, May 23 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

One of my many mistakes when learning the Predator is thinking I have an ability to fight an A class in open combat. Though with time you can, it's not recommended at first.

The best way to understand the Pred isn't to read a guide, but to take the ideas from that guide and apply it to your daily game. Alpha striking should be your number one kill source, and I promise if you get good, you can apply it to your standard combat.

If you're finding it difficult to do that, remember that when fighting with your EOC Pred, that the mines explode straight outward, and a little bit to the sides. They're not like a grenade or TOW, and can deal direct damage to a flying A class if laid on the ground and detonated.

I've found the best weapon for the Predator is your Breacher, and haven't even bothered buying the prestige. Nor do I think I will as I loathe the weapon. In any case, find the weapon you're good with, and remember that your enemies are all more prepared for a stand-up fight than you are. Look for the weaklings, fight the ones on their own, and always go for the first hit. As for flying A's, those take time to get used to. They're the hardest for most people to deal with, and really take time to master.

I'm glad to see you've decided to take up this mech though, too few stay the course with it and really grasp it's full potential.

Summarization: Use your mines on the ground more often, and focus less on direct damage and more on stealth attacks. Remember to Alpha strike, and buy a heavy damage item like the detonators or the H.E. Chargers (My recommendation). Try to get good with the Breacher's double-tap. Finally, remember to call for help if you're in a tight spot.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, May 23 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Personally, my favorite weapon to use with the Pred is EOC Rep.  You have to catch enemies off guard and fight in ways that you don't normally do.  I'd say EOC Rep and Breacher are the better weapons (imo), this all depends on your style.  Do you want to have huge burst potential + more traps or do you want to be able to pick off enemies through shield and afar while being able to punch the occasional flak round all the while making traps_  As K_O has said above, reading a guide isn't enough.  Yes, I'm the one who showed it to you, but the true way to master the mech is through experience.

Also, using Breacher, EOC Rep, or the T32 Flak all make the Pred into essentially different mechs.  Also, try to use a mix of tactics instead of sticking to one.  Having variety can help you do better on the fly.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, May 23 2014 - 06:31 PM.

[TwentyFirstPilot]

Desert_Fox2, on May 23 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Snippy snippy snip!

Ah, yes, I remember going a few rounds with you. I groan when I see your Scout scurrying through the wreckage.

I know how the Repeater works.

I also agree that the Breacher is a very fun weapon when you want to mess with people. Even though I've only used it for a few days there have been many times where shields placed by my enemies ended up being what let me win the encounter. I've actually thought about buying shields/blockades just for that.

Why aren't dets a good option_ They don't do much damage, true, but they've been quite handy for me on my Reaper. They let me whittle down enemies, and they can provide a little distraction.

In regards to corner play, that'd be great if you have the time and inclination!

Coboxite, on May 23 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

Snip that sucker!

Well, I don't try to fight fair. However, I find myself in situations where I'm forced to more often than I'd like.

I try to set traps, but I sometimes find myself needing to disassemble those traps mid fight.

What sort of height will detonated mines do damage until_ I was under the impression they only did damage for a few meters up. Also, meters. This game's scale doesn't make any sense. xD You tower above buildings in game, but the menu shows engineers around your mech, and they don't look like ants. Have the devs ever spoken on that discrepancy_

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on May 23 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Making life just a bit more unpleasant for lurkers since '14!

I've never thought of alternate weapons like that. Pred is special, I suppose, seeing as its primaries are all very strange.

Also, what's the Breacher double tap and how do I use it_ I understand it's a bug, but I've  not seen instructions on how to use it.

Edited by TwentyFirstPilot, May 23 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[Desert_Fox2]

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Ah, yes, I remember going a few rounds with you. I groan when I see your Scout scurrying through the wreckage.

I know how the Repeater works.

I also agree that the Breacher is a very fun weapon when you want to mess with people. Even though I've only used it for a few days there have been many times where shields placed by my enemies ended up being what let me win the encounter. I've actually thought ab

I hope you didn't mind me trying to explain how the EOC works. If someone asks a question I try to be thorough in my explanations.

[TwentyFirstPilot]

Desert_Fox2, on May 23 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

I hope you didn't mind me trying to explain how the EOC works. If someone asks a question I try to be thorough in my explanations.

Nah, thorough is great!

Accidentally submitted my post before I was finished with it (curse you, touch screen!). Did an edit and added a few more points and questions related to your reply.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on May 23 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Making life just a bit more unpleasant for lurkers since '14!

I've never thought of alternate weapons like that. Pred is special, I suppose, seeing as its primaries are all very strange.

Also, what's the Breacher double tap and how do I use it_ I understand it's a bug, but I've  not seen instructions on how to use it.

I love how you summed up my paragraph like that. XD  Also, it's 'since '13' for me.   As for the Breacher's 'Double Tap' (<= Sounds lame) Spikes That Pierce The Heavens! attack is basically this:  Charged Breacher shot then immediately right click for flak.  It's a pretty awesome thing to do to enemies but it's hard to get used to.  (I fully maxed out my Pred and I still haven't gotten it right. XD

[Desert_Fox2]

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

I also agree that the Breacher is a very fun weapon when you want to mess with people. Even though I've only used it for a few days there have been many times where shields placed by my enemies ended up being what let me win the encounter. I've actually thought about buying shields/blockades just for that.

Why aren't dets a good option_ They don't do much damage, true, but they've been quite handy for me on my Reaper. They let me whittle down enemies, and they can provide a little distraction.

In regards to corner play, that'd be great if you have the time and inclination!

I have never tried it on a blockade. I would assume that it won't work. That would be really unbalanced. I will have to try it tomorrow, if I get the time.

Dets aren't a bad option. They have saved me many times. I have Mk2s on my HEAT Scout, and Mk1s on my Flak Scout, Infil, Zerker, etc, etc. Yet, EMPs are more versatile and a team based item, and a Pred is a team based mech. You can EMP a choke point or a shield. Sometimes in the middle of a fight if someone lays down a shield I will run through it. Then guess when my opponents are passing through and 180 and EMP it. Then I can pick them apart at my leisure.
I find EMPs to be good when you are on overheat and your opponent has a fair chunk of health remaining. If you can land the EMP you have just bought yourself some more time.

For my final point. EMPs have a certain factor, which gives them a fair amount of power. Fear. Nobody wants to be hit by an EMP. A C class will do whatever they can to get out of the way.

In a corner fight you might think about throwing a Det down one side then getting to the other and hitting them on the way out. Not bad, but... How about an EMP with a larger burst radius that you can ricochet around the corner.

I have the time. Would Monday work_

[2live]

Well first thing you gotta understand about predator is that it is an ambush and finisher mech. Your objective in game is to lay traps around, block choke points and restrict players movement. Predator is one of the best support mechs in game in my opinion. But you are expecting it to be a both support and assault mech.

Now that would be a bit of unfair wouldn't it _ Think about it, you are able to lay traps and do alpha shots on your enemies already, and you want is the power to stay in a sustained fight _. You can't have them both. If it would be possible, then everyone would just pick predator.

Though still I have seen some veterans who rock the predator in 1v1 situations, it's really rare and takes a tremandous amount of skill. I think predator is pretty powerful the way it is, you just gotta understand what to expect of it, and how to use it.

Edited by 2live, May 23 2014 - 11:22 PM.

[Meraple]

2live, on May 23 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

Well first thing you gotta understand about predator is that it is an ambush and finisher mech. Your objective in game is to lay traps around, block choke points and restrict players movement. Predator is one of the best support mechs in game in my opinion. But you are expecting it to be a both support and assault mech.

Now that would be a bit of unfair wouldn't it _ Think about it, you are able to lay traps and do alpha shots on your enemies already, and you want is the power to stay in a sustained fight _. You can't have them both. If it would be possible, then everyone would just pick predator.

I wholeheartedly disagree.
I can fill both support- and assault-roles in my Predator, using both Repeater and Breacher.

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

my MMR sits at 1750 (in case you wish to get a general idea when it comes to the levels of those I fight against)

Air Compressor makes those scrubs ragequit.

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

However, I've reached a problem. I've found that it's extremely difficult for me to destroy another mech in a 'fair' fight. That being, a fight where both players spot each other at the same time. Bonus points if my foe is an A class with air compressor.

Fair, head-on fights require pin-point accarucy with both weapons.
Air Compressor makes your life easier alot in those situations.

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

If a fight turns into a peek a boo battle, I get demolished if I can't find a way to put a bit of range between me and my opponent. If my opponent starts to fly, my secondary is pretty ineffective. If I engage my opponent outside of a cramped area, it's likely he'll be able to boost away from me right after I deliver my alpha strike. On occasion, those opponents even manage to take me out.

I don't have any advice for this, other then my videos.

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

If you're so inclined to wince and correct the mistakes I make (and I welcome that), add me as a friend in game.

Do you play in the US, or European servers_
I play in the EU servers as it gives me less PING.
If you can play there as well I'd be more then happy to 1v1 you, to give you an idea on how to move.

Edited by Meraple, May 24 2014 - 12:28 AM.

[Amidatelion]

TwentyFirstPilot, on May 23 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Why aren't dets a good option_ They don't do much damage, true, but they've been quite handy for me on my Reaper. They let me whittle down enemies, and they can provide a little distraction.

That's it there. They whittle down your enemy. That's fine when you're a Reaper and have some sustain and fight at medium range. As a Pred, you need to burst the enemy down or better yet, disable him and make him panic. Also, the time they take to reach their target means you are exposed out of stealth for much longer than if you got closer and alpha-struck with an HE or EMP and your burst. In a 1 v 1 its even worse because at that range, all of your offensive options are better.

For fighting 1 v 1s, especially at our MMR (~1750), aim your pucks at the ground where someone's dodging through. Then herd them back through there, which is a lot easier than it sounds, because I fuzzy bunny GUARANTEE idiots dodge RIGHT back where they came from a lot of the time. For this method, alternate Breacher/laying pucks. So he dodges, puck where he was, nail him with Breacher at the end of his dodge.

Against better players, wait for the dodge, then hit them with both weapons. Harder to do with EOC R, but doable. What I find works real well in corridors is mining their escape route and then pushing up and alphaing them in the face. Except for C classes, most mechs will at least start to back off at this point, running them into the mines, making them take more damage and panicking them, turning their backing off into a full on run-for-their-life-through-a-minefield. Which ends with a charged Breacher in their backs.

Remember, you're a hunter, not a dueler. If someone forces you into a duel, change the rules of the game. Put them on their back foot, panic them, and then kill them when they're weak. Act like an actual predator, which means kill the weak and infirm.

Also, run from fights. That's what predators do too. Know where your team is and run like a baby. This is my back-up plan, especially if I know someone is a better player than me.

[Meraple]

Amidatelion, on May 24 2014 - 01:02 AM, said:

Remember, you're a hunter, not a dueler. If someone forces you into a duel, change the rules of the game. Put them on their back foot, panic them, and then kill them when they're weak. Act like an actual predator, which means kill the weak and infirm.

Also, run from fights. That's what predators do too. Know where your team is and run like a baby. This is my back-up plan, especially if I know someone is a better player than me.

I both hunt and duel in my Predator.
I don't run FROM fights, I run INTO them.
Just because Predator is meant to be played like that, doesn't mean you can't go full front assault style.

Yes, I said it; Predator isn't meant to be played like an Assault.
It's obvious the Devs want it like an actual Predator,
but if they nerf it so much it won't be usable in an assault style, the other styles will become obsolete as well.
And with obsolete, I mean it'll become a gimmick instead of an actually viable playstyle.

[Amidatelion]

Meraple, on May 24 2014 - 01:24 AM, said:

Amidatelion, on May 24 2014 - 01:02 AM, said:

Remember, you're a hunter, not a dueler. If someone forces you into a duel, change the rules of the game. Put them on their back foot, panic them, and then kill them when they're weak. Act like an actual predator, which means kill the weak and infirm.

Also, run from fights. That's what predators do too. Know where your team is and run like a baby. This is my back-up plan, especially if I know someone is a better player than me.

I both hunt and duel in my Predator.
I don't run FROM fights, I run INTO them.
Just because Predator is meant to be played like that, doesn't mean you can't go full front assault style.

Yes, I said it; Predator isn't meant to be played like an Assault.
It's obvious the Devs want it like an actual Predator,
but if they nerf it so much it won't be usable in an assault style, the other styles will become obsolete as well.
And with obsolete, I mean it'll become a gimmick instead of an actually viable playstyle.

Yeah, but dude, we are at 1750. As much as we would like to be Professional Yolodrivers like you and Lightangel112, we're not there yet.

It's something to aspire to, sure, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

[Meraple]

..I missed that 1750 part..
Or I forgot.
Sorry for that.

[2live]

Well Meraple I think you missed my point there. As you can see in the original message I already stated ;

Quote

Though still I have seen some veterans who rock the predator in 1v1 situations, it's really rare and takes a tremandous amount of skill

So you are probably one of them. I was talking about avarage skilled players. People who are not at master skill yet. If you have a good aim, and enough experience you can use every mech as an assault mech. I know techs who can kill anything that comes at them, does that mean tech is an assault tech _ I've also seen 3 people with 2 raiders and a scout unable to kill a CRT. So individual skills are one thing, general idea of a mech is another.

Exceptions prove the rules. We are talking about the intended use of a mech, not the particular way a really good player uses it. So in my opinion if an avarage person takes up the predator, I'd rather prefer him to play as support, instead of assaulting the enemy with it. He may do this once he reaches that level of skill of course. But as I said, that's another story...

[TwentyFirstPilot]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on May 23 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

snip snip snip

Actually, I was summing up my terrible action. Often when I lurk on forums, I find snipped replies a bit bothersome. I have to do that scrolling thing, and go back to the top of the page, and that's hard.

On the charged Breacher shot, I'm still unsure of what you mean. Tried to pop one off in bot training, but all I managed to do was fire a slug and a mine at the same time.

Desert_Fox2, on May 23 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

nom nom nom

I think Breacher shots can go through blockades, though I may be mistaken. I'll check to make sure next time
I get the chance.

Ah, yeah, I see where you're going with that. I've not actually used EMPs yet.

Monday should. I'll likely be available for most of the day.

Meraple, on May 24 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

snip nom snip

Are shock coils and the fail safe really worth giving up for air compressor_ I'd be willing to dump my fail safe, but shock coils have been tremendously useful for me. (It'd take a good deal to make me consider ditching advanced reconstructor. That thing has saved my life so many times.)

I play on the US servers, though I'd be willing to hop on the European servers. My ping won't be great, but I can certainly do it.

Edited by TwentyFirstPilot, May 24 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[TwentyFirstPilot]

Meraple, on May 24 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

I don't have any advice for this, other then my videos.

Before playing Hawken, I spent most of my gaming time playing Planetside 2. In Planetside 2, shotguns have an optimal range of about ten meters. I came into Hawken with that in mind. Because of that, I almost never fired off flak shots with my Breacher. After watching this video, I realized that such was my main problem.

So I played a few rounds of TDM without using its slug fire mode, and I decimated everything. Flanking maneuvers worked, turreted C classes were toast. It was actually really very fun. I'll check out the rest of your videos, because that was great.

Edited by TwentyFirstPilot, May 24 2014 - 09:45 AM.