19 replies to this topic

[FuryMonster]

Clearly the Incinerator is absurd and theres several reasons for this. A few of them is that the right click generates heat on people and a skilled pilot can literally have 100% up time on its right click and it does the most splash and dmg for a secondary, It can only do this because the P4P4'S heat generations.

because of all the reasons stated above were holding a vote to BAN the P4P4 in the TPG League.

DO NOT CLOG THIS THREAD ABOUT USELESS BANTER UNLESS ITS PERTAINING TO THE TPG LEAGUE AND THE INCINERATOR MECH

Edited by [HFC]FuryMonster, May 28 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[ThirdEyE]

Just for the sake of consistency in the TPG season, I would heavily be against banning the papa right now.

The OP-ness of the Incinerator is hard to nail down to one specific thing as there are so many good aspects of it.  Banning a single primary seems like a knee-jerk reaction that doesn't address the issues that the mech has, and I feel like banning the papa is just as arbitrary as banning the alt-fire of SAARE.

I'm all for a more balanced game both within and outside of organized play, but this is not the right way to go about achieving that.

[Meraple]

I'd say the SAARE Launcher is broken, not the PPA.
It has too big of a splash radius for it's firing rate and damage output.
There are multiple ways to fix this:

-Reduce AOE on Secondary mode
-Reduce ROF
-Reduce damage output

I'd prefer the first option, reducing the AOE on the SAARE's Secondary mode.
It'd make it harder to hit with while maintaining the DPS aspect.
This way it'd also be less of a threat at corner play, while still being a monster at frontal combat.

[Battlesbreak]

Do you want second opinion_ NEIN!

[Meraple]

 Battlesbreak, on May 27 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

Do you want second opinion_ NEIN!

Whom are you addressing_

[Battlesbreak]

 Meraple, on May 27 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

 Battlesbreak, on May 27 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

Do you want second opinion_ NEIN!

Whom are you addressing_

It is a weapon. Why you should ban a weapon_ Okay I want TOW to be banned *troll face* Because it is good.

[Kopra]

Incinerator reminds me of Yuri from Red Alert 2.

Gross amounts of built-in synergy that offset possible weaknesses. The secondary SAARE could exist as a unique weapon, balanced for the Incinerator's needs. You can't detonate it, but it has a stupidly huge blast radius and does full damage even on 7m misses, and you can spam it. The only weakness is that to use that power to the max, you need heat. BBY doesn't cause enough heat and M4MA is a low dps, much harder to use weapon. PPA pretty much enables the secondary to be used in vertical mode all the time, and PPA doesn't do bad damage either. PPA is what makes the Incinerator broken because it enables all of the synergy to happen. If you compare BBY and M4MA Incis to every other mech you see a support C mech like it was intended.

[LarryLaffer]

And don't forget that you can pretty easy shot down siege ship near your base without taking AA, SAARE projectiles have relatively flat trajectory and high velocity so you can hit ship's engine. And it does full DPS without any damage falloff. All this is possible because of SAARE and P4PA synergy.

So I think that if heat manipulation concept will remain as it is now, both P4PA and SAARE characteristics should be readjusted. SAARE alt-fire should have more steep trajectory (range is too high!) and both SAARE's and P4PA's damage characteristics (DPH, fire rate, falloff range, heat generation/dissipation) should be tuned to make DPS and effectiveness more reasonable, for example, for close range brawling or something like that.

But whatever changes will be made to Inci, something have to be done with infinite spamming concept. It's dumb, no matter how much microcontrol you need to perform it.

Edited by LarryLaffer, May 28 2014 - 03:49 AM.

[shosca]

If I may provide a different perspective, as pretty much everyone knows incinerators "problems", it is so boring to watch an incinerator pilot streaming. It is even more boring to watch two opposing incinerators just endless spamming the hell out of each other's teams with papa and saare with a tech attached behind.

And i end this message with brrrp brrrp brrrp. Pow brrrrp. Pow brrrrp. Pow brrrrp. Pow brrrrp. Pow brrrrp. Pow brrrrp.

Edited by shosca, May 28 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[hiddengecko]

 [HFC]FuryMonster, on May 26 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

Clearly the Incinerator is absurd

I wouldn't say it's clear, no. There are plenty of consistently viable base classes which draw no complaints because they've been around for a very long time and they're well-respected. The TOW is reliably and consistently good, but nobody asks to ban it; the GL is amazing in team play and corner play and is a versatile all-rounder, and the SAARE has high DPS and fairly good splash.

It's also easily countered by flying, as the projectile travels slowly and can't be air-detonated, and its arc and inability to bounce or roll makes it significantly harder to consistently land shots than with the GL. (It also does far less damage per shot, but that's offset by the ability to fire it quickly.)

[SoldierHobbes11]

You do know that EMP'ing a PPA incinerator totally screws him over, right_

[Moreapples]

EDIT: can't be bothered to argue atm..

Edited by Moreapples, June 21 2014 - 12:20 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

I don't know about TPG balance here, but I will say the PPA incin is overpowered in the right hands. I don't know many skilled incin players, so I'm just going off my own account playing it.

If you can play the scout, the predator (with breacher), the brawler, and the grenadier,
you are invincible in the incinerator.

The scouts low health and high speed forces you to be hyper aware, and as long as you are, two or even three opponents can often be taken on at once. To use the predator in a firefight correctly, you have to consistently shift shift your aim between your opponent and the ground (or surfaces) near your opponent, which is the same sort of motion you need to get max DPS in an incin. The brawlers low speed forces you to learn positioning, and the grenadier's weapons are somewhat similar to the incin.

You get that pilot in something with the DPS of two TOWs in just one weapon, one of the fastest C classes, and still a heavy mech-not to mention the passive heat suck and the added offensive heat gen, like I said. You are invincible.

No other mech allows for this complete domination. I love it. I really love playing it. But it does need a nerf. Removing a little bit of the area of effect may be the way to go.

What should you do in TPG_ Probably nothing. Someone's going to play it every game, and that's how it is. Both teams get one, and it'll shape the game, sure. But don't change the rules mid season.

[ticklemyiguana]

 SoldierHobbes11, on June 20 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

You do know that EMP'ing a PPA incinerator totally screws him over, right_

Unless you've got two or more players on you, not really. The mech has a high enough health pool and is fast enough to avoid significant damage until you can get an item down. For this reason I always carry mk 3 shields on my incin, and it's the only mech i have with mk 3 anything. A couple seconds without power, a shield for you to work around, and you're back in the fight.

Not to mention, landing EMPs, (and having EMPs at all) is not something every player can do/has.

[Ade_the_Rare]

On the plus side, beer

[Yombie]

Nothing is broken.

The Papa primary gun is balanced.

It generates fast high heat for the secondary alt fire however it does this so well that it's near impossible to maintain when near teammates.

The additional heat generation from your teammates is almost too much to handle for the papa and saare alt fire, thus the papa is more suited towards a flanking lone wolf incinerator, as opposed to one that is a front liner in combat like his default primary and the normal secondary fire.

I have yet to use the third gun with the added heat bonus.

It requires a lot of skill to use well, I tend to imagine it as more of a sustained burst, rather than sustained dps like the default primary.

Pros: Fast heat generation for alt fire Saare.

Cons: Slow wind up time, hard to maintain with nearby teammates.

[Rei]

 Yombie, on June 26 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Nothing is broken.

The Papa primary gun is balanced.

It generates fast high heat for the secondary alt fire however it does this so well that it's near impossible to maintain when near teammates.

The additional heat generation from your teammates is almost too much to handle for the papa and saare alt fire, thus the papa is more suited towards a flanking lone wolf incinerator, as opposed to one that is a front liner in combat like his default primary and the normal secondary fire.

I have yet to use the third gun with the added heat bonus.

It requires a lot of skill to use well, I tend to imagine it as more of a sustained burst, rather than sustained dps like the default primary.

Pros: Fast heat generation for alt fire Saare.

Cons: Slow wind up time, hard to maintain with nearby teammates.

You might want to watch Xacius' incinerator, because he's doing dps all the time without ever having to worry about his heat. You burst fire the weapon so it gets a little cooldown time inbetween and you never overheat while keeping the gun spinning for no windup time. Saare shoots so fast you don't have to worry at all while the ppa just feeds it all the heat it needs while being very strong itself.

Honestly I wouldn't mind PPA if the alt fire for the SAARE was on a longer cooldown.

Edited by [HFC]Rei, June 26 2014 - 10:03 PM.

[Ker4u]

can't belive this fuzzy bunny isn't hotfixed yet

[Houruck]

 Ker4u, on June 27 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

can't belive this fuzzy bunny isn't hotfixed yet

This is the reason they kept the tuning system, to adjust numbers from the background without deploying a patch.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

Flying is a fuzzy bunny for incinerators generally.