112 replies to this topic

[Digimaul]

Dyson, on October 26 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

What is the big deal about pay to get an xp boost_ Or pay to get weapons_  I work 80 hours a week, I don't have time to grind this game like it's my second job and if you spend 40 hours a week grinding to get better loot you are either already rich or have your priorities backwards.  A game is a game and life is life.  See if you can pay for your retirement and medical bills with your Hawken Points.

Frankly I don't think any of the loot should be paid for with points or cash or anything.  That should be restricted to cosmetic things.

Dyson, on October 26 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Also, wtf do you expect from a game company_  You want them to make this game for free_ How are they supposed to monetize it_  They gotta feed their families and pay their rent.  If you think of a better monetization scheme go start a game company and make a better game than Hawken.

In a verses game_  I expect a game that is fair to everyone playing it, regardless of the bribes they are willing to pay.

You act like this isn't possible... that some how you can't make money unless you give advantages to those who pay more.  And yet Team Fortress 2 is still making money, and Counter Strike is still one of the most played online games.  How long do you think some Pay to Win fuzzy bunny is going to last_  A year_  Two before people get bored_  You think people are going to want to pick up the game later on once everyone that is playing it has end-gear and an advantage over them_

Is it too much to ask that skill be the factor_  You preach about working 80 hours a week, well why should that mean you have to pay more to play on even ground_  Why shouldn't YOU be able to get into the game on equal footing with anyone else_

Dyson, on October 26 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Finally, if you hate the idea of this P2W to even get started, just pretend Hawken costs $20.  I'm sure many of you just spent $50 to play Borderlands 2.  Less than half price and I'm sure $20 of Meteor Points will go a long way.

Then why not just charge $50 for the game and give the game to everyone_  Or use cosmetic items, like TF2_  I've bought things in TF2 before.  And I don't regret it... if I wanted to I could drop into it right now and play it, and after having been out of the game for months I'd still be on even footing with the elites and the people who started that day.

This pay structure is a cancer.

[Aukerai]

Patrick Bateman, on October 25 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Roundlay, on October 25 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

Assuming the weapons within Hawken are balanced, what you're referring to is a pay-to-progress model, not a pay-to-win one.

Simon Ludgate wrote a three part feature on why pay-to-progress models aren't a huge deal.

pay2progress is a dumb liberal term that just tricks people into thinking its something other than p2w

as long as it doesnt take absolutely aeons to unlock things without boosters as it does in tribes: A, itll be fine

Tribes doesn't take THAT long to unlock stuff... but this is coming from a lv41 competitive player who has everything unlocked anyway.

Regarding Hawken, if they do it correctly, I really don't care if they have boosters, cosmetic items, weapons available for premium currency. As long as you can get weapons (at a decent price, so maybe... 10 hours of gameplay for a perm, maybe less) for free, I really don't see the problem.

As long as it's not prohibitively expense (Tribes Closed beta... 175k xp for a weapon, as compared to 88k now), it'll be fine.

[Moc]

Digmaul I agree with most of what you said in that if they wanted every one to pay money to be able to play then they would have sold that right.
Although Dyson is right in saying you should be able to buy the equipment to be able to play the way you want and avoid the grind when you have no time or patience to. One this that interests me is that no one is mentioning balance. You argument is completely invalid if this game is properly balanced. Where all Mechs weapons are balanced and equal but different in allowing for other strategies and play styles. But not giving player a direct advantage...

Digimaul, on October 26 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

Dyson, on October 26 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

What is the big deal about pay to get an xp boost_ Or pay to get weapons_  I work 80 hours a week, I don't have time to grind this game like it's my second job and if you spend 40 hours a week grinding to get better loot you are either already rich or have your priorities backwards.  A game is a game and life is life.  See if you can pay for your retirement and medical bills with your Hawken Points.

Frankly I don't think any of the loot should be paid for with points or cash or anything. That should be restricted to cosmetic things.

Why_ XP is not exactly loot. The weapons in the game I assume are balanced or close to it. So there is not much of an advantage, by getting them earlier.
Also you mention "end[game]-gear" this being what exactly_ Because every is available from the start. There is not grind for end game grear when it's all there for you from the start.

The only grinding for end game things would be the points to be placed in the skill tree. They are direct upgrades giving you an advantage but you cannot buy that.

[ShinyShark]

There is such a thing as skill in these games. Maybe their weapons aren't the reason you are getting beat...Also, paying for the exp boosts helps let you enjoy this free to play game.

[HugeGuts]

Towards the end of the alpha, I decided to go into matches without upgrades. I still scored 15+, plus assists. Player skill is still the biggest factor in doing well.

[arslan]

Go and try global agenda, Tribes Universe and other f2p fps online games.
Its the only way these companies make money.
The stats difference are not too far apart from a basic weapon that players can 1 shot you.

[Beemann]

arslan, on October 26 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Go and try global agenda

What_
There's very little in GA that is actually necessary for comp play. You need your speciality slot device OC, a Crescent Jetpack and a ton of stacked N and R mods
N and R mods are dirt cheap, and the CJP can be bought with credits or earned in random drops. The OC is the biggest purchase you'll make and it's a slight increase over a straight ddd weapon
And you can earn it in 2 weeks by playing AvA only

Also I wouldn't recommend it at this point. Takes forever to get a merc match, competition in the AvA community is pretty sad, and if you aren't east coast you've gotta deal with monster chains of noregs

It's also worth noting that the F2P portion of GA was cosmetics and "Agenda Point" costs tacked onto items already present in a buy-to-play game

Edited by Beemann, October 26 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Xilent]

Patrick Bateman, on October 25 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

HEAT CANNON ON INF

WHAT

EXP BOOSTERS_ P2W P2W

ITSOVER.jpg

YOU SAID IT WASNT GOING TO BE P2W DEVS

IT HURTS

That's why it's still Beta...not even open Beta yet. Everything is still susceptible to change.

As much as i loved Inf with Flak im actually glad they changed it. That was too Op back in Alpha.

[Dray]

It is still beta that's the really important thing to remember but it's there and I'm sure it's there so the devs can gauge the response to it, either way I'll wait but I'm with Croker it leaves a bad taste.

On a side note "Fred" is a transgender Evil Edna for me, made of win tbh.

[Nephtaline]

CharlieCroker, on October 26 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Man, this topic is weird. I know Bateman was joking, and hoping one or two less intelligent people would fall for the joke but it looks like the whole party has come full circle.

^ This, pretty much explain the whole thread.
It was a troll thread, nothing serious.

[Dyson]

Moc, on October 26 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

The weapons in the game I assume are balanced or close to it. So there is not much of an advantage, by getting them earlier.

...

The only grinding for end game things would be the points to be placed in the skill tree. They are direct upgrades giving you an advantage but you cannot buy that.

^^^  THIS

[DarkPulse]

Like in any other "Freemium" game, you pay either with money (Meteor Points) or you pay with time (Hawken Points).

That said, I finished a four-hour playsession with roughly 1000 of the Hawken Points. Most things from what I've seen have similar costs if you can buy them with both, so logistically speaking, it shouldn't take aeons to unlock anything.

However, the stuff that will give you actual, tangible boosts, you need XP for. Yeah, you can buy the XP Boosters, but they do just that - boost. You still have to actually do playing (and good playing, at that) to make the most of the XP Boost. Therefore, calling things "pay to win" is pretty silly.

[Scapes]

Intentional troll thread experiment complete.

Thank you for your participation.