14 replies to this topic

[SoldierHobbes11]

So, essentially what the retros would allow your mech to do is give your dodges a curved trajectory based on how much you turn the camera in the middle of a dodge. Only affects horizontal movement, not vertical. It would take up 3 or maybe even 4 slots. Good or bad idea_

Edited by SoldierHobbes11, June 25 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[EliteShooter]

That would be interesting, and troublesome. I prefer not having something like this, it would make the player's moves very unexpectedness, and will make things very easy. No need to make things easier.

[EM1O]

nope. several threads, including accelleration downward. camera viewpoint is locked to weapons aiming control. boost movement is locked to keyboard. mouse movement linked to keys is not reversible without forfeiting camera/aiming control with the mouse.
same reason you can't have boost/jump movement and viewpoint/aiming controls both on the same key.
the scripting snarl could give a coder a migraine.... :{

Edited by EM1O, June 25 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[comic_sans]

Why not just amend the idea to a curved dodges internal_

[SoldierHobbes11]

Oh, sorry I didn't make it clear. Only horizontal movement would be affected. No vertical movement.

[SoldierHobbes11]

comic_sans, on June 25 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Why not just amend the idea to a curved dodges internal_

Well yeah, that was essentially what I was going for. I just threw in the camera thing to try and give the player some control over the movement, but a set amount of curvature could work as well.

[SoldierHobbes11]

EliteShooter, on June 25 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

That would be interesting, and troublesome. I prefer not having something like this, it would make the player's moves very unexpectedness, and will make things very easy. No need to make things easier.

I dunno about it being easier. Most people already find the current movements of the mechs complex enough as it is. Adding more complexity will test your piloting skills to see if you can handle it. Plus, I know there's quite a few maneuvers that rely on the straight nature of the dodge to pull off (the 180 dodge turn for example). Essentially you'd sacrifice a few older moves to gain the ability to maybe curve a dodge around a corner or gain a little edge in cqc.

[SoldierHobbes11]

EM1O, on June 25 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

nope. several threads, including accelleration downward. camera viewpoint is locked to weapons aiming control. boost movement is locked to keyboard. mouse movement linked to keys is not reversible without forfeiting camera/aiming control with the mouse.
same reason you can't have boost/jump movement and viewpoint/aiming controls both on the same key.
the scripting snarl could give a coder a migraine.... :{

Would a set amount of curvature be enough aspirin for that coder migraine_

[EM1O]

hmm. would it be activated curve/forward||curve/rearward by item use key+another ^ or v (W/S_)key+A/D+Shift_ That's 4 keys simultaneous for one maneuver. You aren't kidding "skills". The coder isn't the one that's gonna need aspirin (for hand cramps)!


oyeh: i use a 360joypad in my left hand--this is easy to configure. whoa! hit Dpad for item, then thumb, Ltrigger, #1/#2mouse thumb button. Slaughterin' time!
I take it all back!!!

Edited by EM1O, June 25 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[comic_sans]

SoldierHobbes11, on June 25 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

comic_sans, on June 25 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Why not just amend the idea to a curved dodges internal_

Well yeah, that was essentially what I was going for. I just threw in the camera thing to try and give the player some control over the movement, but a set amount of curvature could work as well.

I think if you curved forward while moving forward and back while moving back, it could lead to some really smart options and two dodges with a pivot in the middle could get you behind somebody, seriously buffing offensive play.  How would this get balanced though_  Kinda hard to think of the ramifications, but it could be airdodge-level good.

[SoldierHobbes11]

comic_sans, on June 25 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

SoldierHobbes11, on June 25 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

comic_sans, on June 25 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Why not just amend the idea to a curved dodges internal_

Well yeah, that was essentially what I was going for. I just threw in the camera thing to try and give the player some control over the movement, but a set amount of curvature could work as well.

I think if you curved forward while moving forward and back while moving back, it could lead to some really smart options and two dodges with a pivot in the middle could get you behind somebody, seriously buffing offensive play.  How would this get balanced though_  Kinda hard to think of the ramifications, but it could be airdodge-level good.

To be honest, I hadn't thought about that. I guess it could work like this: foward/backward input + dodge = forward/backward curve, while no forward/backward input could just be a normal dodge. As for buffing offensive play, that was another thing I hadn't quite thought of at the time. However, being a mostly defensive player myself I can definitely say that Hawken's current state definitely rewards defensive play in most scenarios. In fact, most of the times I need to beat someone who's playing very defensively, I have to bait them into going on the offense in order to change up the advantage. In fact, I remember reading through the forums, and several other players who've been around for a long time also stated that offensive play tends to be much more punishing than defensive play is, even after ascension.

[SoldierHobbes11]

EM1O, on June 25 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

hmm. would it be activated curve/forward||curve/rearward by item use key+another ^ or v (W/S_)key+A/D+Shift_ That's 4 keys simultaneous for one maneuver. You aren't kidding "skills". The coder isn't the one that's gonna need aspirin (for hand cramps)!


oyeh: i use a 360joypad in my left hand--this is easy to configure. whoa! hit Dpad for item, then thumb, Ltrigger, #1/#2mouse thumb button. Slaughterin' time!
I take it all back!!!

Yeah, pulling off manuevers with this internal will require some fancy finger-work to pull off. I may have stated it before, but I'm not a big fan of internals that come off as crutches or provide too much of an advantage without any application of skill involved. And by Jove, my internal idea will not be one such idea (whoever the hell Jove is)!!! After all, the reason why I posted this idea up on the forums was to get a critique to see how I could get it to work and flesh out the ideas. Not that I'm counting on this being added in game, but it's still fun, none the less.

[EM1O]

Jove: (latin: hova', Yova') The Patron God of Imperial Rome and its emperors. Jupiter. Master of the Universe.
HEEEEEMAAAAANnnnn.....
(I used to sit and watch this with the grandkids back in the 80s) not to bust the thread or anything here...

Edited by EM1O, June 25 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Terr_]

I don't see much point to it. The curvature won't be significant because individual side-boosts are short and you have a limited turning-rate anyway. It'll be the difference between a circle-strafe and a hexagon-strafe.

The only way it'll be noticeable is if somebody finds an unplanned way to exploit the feature.

Edited by Terr_, June 30 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[SoldierHobbes11]

Terr_, on June 30 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

I don't see much point to it. The curvature won't be significant because individual side-boosts are short and you have a limited turning-rate anyway. It'll be the difference between a circle-strafe and a hexagon-strafe.

The only way it'll be noticeable is if somebody finds an unplanned way to exploit the feature.

It's a more complicated movement dynamic that'll make it harder for people to track your mech. I don't know about you, but I've gotten pretty good at shooting people just after they dodge because I've learned the dodge distances for most of the mechs. This internal would easily upset my aim, because the mech would be moving irregularly and wouldn't end up where I think it would be when I go to aim my tow at them once they dodge. It's purpose is to add more unpredictability to a mech's movements. It'll also allow you to use a dodge to advance or retreat without having to turn your camera away from your target to pull off more fancy maneuvers. And actually, I think the curvature should be a set amount by hitting W or S when you go to dodge. The input would be from the keyboard, not the mouse.

Edited by SoldierHobbes11, July 14 2014 - 07:03 AM.