31 replies to this topic

[Conquistador]

Immie, on October 28 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Flappers, on October 28 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

You are effectively forced to spend money on this game if you want to progress.

No, you're not. Plain and simple. I could not spend a dime on this game, max the garage and compete with the best. I even save a few bucks doing it.

But if you don't spend a dime, then how will they ever make any money_ D=

Am I the only one who thinks buying internals and items with real money is a bad idea_ I have no qualms about purchasing mechs, cosmetic effects, and experience boosters with meteor points, but items and internals do feel relatively unfair to purchase.

Let me say this: a level 0 infiltrator with +50 hp, additional weapon damage, more boost fuel, he grenades, emp, and shields has  HUGE competitive advantage over a starting player with none of the above. From experience, that +50 HP alone is enough for me to rip through base model mechs that have no items.

[ThePirateKing]

Even if they decide to keep the purchase model they currently have, there NEED to be servers that allow for players at different level brackets. Otherwise this game will be completely unforgiving to starting players, and many will drop it right off the bat once they see these maxed out mechs they can't compete with.

Personally I'd rather have a sheerly cosmetic purchase system. If the dev team focused more on the mech customization as purchasable items, I think they'd be better off. Its not offputting for new players or players who dont want to "pay2win", and it allows people who DO pay to add their own creative flair to their mech. It works well for Valves games, why can't it for Hawken_ I'd gladly pay to have a huge selection of costemetic tweaks to my mech.

[Tezkat]

I do think that internals and items could be cheaper (and/or income rates higher), but I don't necessarily see a problem with allowing players to purchase them with real money.

Indeed, one could make the argument that it represents an equalizing factor of sorts. Someone who bought all their internals with time will probably have more skill/experience than a player who tricked out their mechs with real world cash, putting the two groups on more even footing. You could argue it both ways, at any rate.

The problem of how to allow lower skilled newbies to become established is a slightly separate issue...

[Ninjaman999]

The current system is pretty faulty if you ask me. While leveling up and skill trees are awesome, it makes the game less noob friendly as the vets get stronger so the only way to alieviate this would be awesome matchmaking based on skill or veterancy.
it will prevent those FUBAR matches...

[AC273]

I am sure the Devs could great a league/metagame internal to this that would give the game an overarching purpose.   Maybe some sort of planetary map with different factions in control of different resources/regions.

[AC273]

Ninjaman999, on October 29 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

The current system is pretty faulty if you ask me. While leveling up and skill trees are awesome, it makes the game less noob friendly as the vets get stronger so the only way to alieviate this would be awesome matchmaking based on skill or veterancy.
it will prevent those FUBAR matches...

This is also fixed with Factions.  If a noob joins a faction, he has vets to help teach him and a solid team to play with so he doesn't get noob raped.   The most successful games include a social aspect.   If done right a social aspect can fix many issues with drawing new players to a game.

[Ninjaman999]

WHile that would be pretty awesome, what they could also do is have  stages of veterancy that allows groups of people from 3 different classes (Noobs, Pros, Vets) to play on different maps as they progress.
Like the beginners would experience all of the sick future city maps while the second group would start to take advantage of the sand and desert maps, and the third group would start taking on low-visual winter maps
The maps get more varied and difficult as you get better while seperating the people would eat kids from the kids

Edited by Ninjaman999, October 29 2012 - 03:09 PM.

[Elix]

ThePirateKing, on October 29 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Even if they decide to keep the purchase model they currently have, there NEED to be servers that allow for players at different level brackets.

Blacklight: Retribution (which is pretty close to Hawken's proposed F2P model, only with options to rent as well as purchase equipment) handles this by having Proving Grounds servers where the level cap is 10. You don't tend to get destroyed as bad on Proving Grounds servers because you aren't dealing with people in camoflage with instant-kill melee weapons and rediculous speed.

Hawken could easily implement level-capped servers so newbies don't have to go up against maxed-out mechs with Vulcans.

[Saunders]

League of Legends' financial model is an inspiration to us - we think LoL does F2P correctly.  

It is our goal for Hawken to never be pay to win.  Right now the leveling system is too slow, so it might feel like that's our goal but it totally isn't.  You'll see some big updates to how leveling works and how quickly you gain hawken points between now and open beta

A big part of these closed beta sessions is for us to gather data.  Our data has told us that's it's way to slow (thanks to you!).

So what would YOU be willing to pay for_  We never want paying players to beat non-paying players.  Let us know, thx!

[Elix]

I would give Meteor my house in exchange for Fred/TV Mech to have taunts that put graphics on the front of the screen, such as a Windows BSOD. Or custom death animations that put stuff on the screen, like a BSOD, or the old Mac application-crash bomb icon, or maybe even just the spinning rainbow beachball. Or, similar things, since copyright issues would be involved in using real OS UI graphics, I'd expect.

[RenaldoMoonSMN]

Canstaht, on October 28 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

As of yet, this game has avoided the 'pay to win' model. If you've read any of the interviews they prefer to aim for the 'pay to be fabulous' model, where you gain aesthetic appearance or modifications that give no in game advantage. I see no problem for buying upgrades/mechs/weapons with cash, as long as they are attainable for free players.

It's how Tribes is. Sure it takes more play time and dedication to earn upgrades, but by the same token, simply having upgrades doesn't make you a better pilot. It also doesn't give such a large advantage that you can't compete. An unmodified, unleveled mech can kill a fully optimized one if played well.

Although if this was a purchase copy game, I'd be content with that option too.

I haven't seen any advantages that can't be attained or earned without cash. Until that is the case, there's nothing wrong with the current model.

I don't think it should be a single payment game. However, I think this model like Tribes is fundamentally flawed. The reason the f2p League model is so successful is there are little to no restrictions (in game) since its character based. Runes are the only thing affecting gameplay which doesn't have a big effect on gameplay to new players since you can't use good runes until you gain quite a few levels. After playing 5-10 matches I already started to become irritated with players who had many upgrades via the shop. This is the feeling they need to alleviate if this game is going to be really successful. This frustration is going to kill retention.


Another thing I think is important to the success of the game is how much is available to new players. Were talking about retention again. I'll harken back to LoL because they are obviously king when it comes to f2p. One mech isn't enough. Hell, as a total I don't think 6 mechs should be the standard. I feel that Hawken would be EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL if they released mechs in a similar way to the way LoL releases characters. You should try something like 6 mechs that are f2p on rotation with a total of like 20 mechs on release with continued development towards new mechs. The gameplay would continue to be interesting as time passes with more mechs to play keeping retention for new and old players high.

[Elix]

It's worth pointing out that the current roster of mechs and frames amounts to Beta content, and should not be assumed to be the final set of mechs. The Alpha mechs were not the same as the current ones, but the NDA prevents me from saying anything else.