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Boosting backwards


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#1 Zombierave

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Posted October 29 2012 - 01:48 PM

So I can boost forward, boost left, boost right, but can't boost backwards_ I may be alone in this, but I actually dislike the shift + s 180 turn. All too often I'll be in a pretty heavy fight and realize I need to get behind some cover. I know there is cover behind me and press shift + s expecting/trying to boost backwards and then sideways into cover while keeping an eye on the competition. But instead I find myself doing a 180 turn which ends up taking my eyes off my enemy and surprises me thus giving them and extra second to shoot me in the back with a rocket or an HE charge or whatever.

I can understand why people like it and that it can be a helpful mechanic, but to me it's more of a pause in what would otherwise be fluid combat and usually gets me killed. To me, it's worse than getting hit with the EMP. I don't suggest the 180 turn get taken out since a lot of people seem to like it, but at least an option of disabling it in favor of boosting backwards would be nice.

#2 Houruck

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Posted October 29 2012 - 01:55 PM

You are not the first to complain:
http://community.pla...ackwards-boost/

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#3 Timber_Wolf

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Posted October 29 2012 - 03:07 PM

I dont think it should be added.  It allows players an escape from entering bad situations.  It allows for defending players to run away even easier.  It makes little sense with the mech's current positioning on their thrusters.  180+boost requires some skill and works perfectly fine as an escape tool.
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#4 marshalade

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Posted October 29 2012 - 03:38 PM

OH LOOK THIS THREAD AGAIN I SURE DID MISS IT I'M GLAD YOU MADE A NEW ONE SO I CAN LOOK AT IT. I'm quite sure some option will be implemented in the final release to disable quick turn. Backwards boost, however, is not physically sound and adds far too much mobility. This has already been discussed in detail.

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#5 Zombierave

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Posted October 29 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostHouruck, on October 29 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

You are not the first to complain:
http://community.pla...ackwards-boost/
thank you for the link.

View PostTimber_Wolf, on October 29 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

I dont think it should be added.  It allows players an escape from entering bad situations.  It allows for defending players to run away even easier.  It makes little sense with the mech's current positioning on their thrusters.  180+boost requires some skill and works perfectly fine as an escape tool.
I'm not questioning it's effectiveness or realism. It's just that personally, I hate when I'm in a fight, win but with little health left, only for a recently respawned player to quickly boost in and finish me off. It just feels like I couldn't do anything to prevent my death. If anything, it's the split second pause of the actual turn that really bothers me.

View Postmarshalade, on October 29 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

OH LOOK THIS THREAD AGAIN I SURE DID MISS IT I'M GLAD YOU MADE A NEW ONE SO I CAN LOOK AT IT. I'm quite sure some option will be implemented in the final release to disable quick turn. Backwards boost, however, is not physically sound and adds far too much mobility. This has already been discussed in detail.
well I apologize. I've only been paying attention to the beta threads and not the general threads.

#6 Elix

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Posted October 29 2012 - 07:18 PM

Backwards boost = everyone will run backwards with flak cannons and just shred you if you try and follow them. There's a reason why running away means giving up your tactical advantages to get the fuzzy bunnies away from certain death.
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#7 DarioPerfectus

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Posted October 29 2012 - 07:21 PM

backward boost is essential , makes no sense 180º turning in battle and no maneuver to get away quickly without leaving the battle

#8 Elix

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Posted October 29 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostDarioPerfectus, on October 29 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

backward boost is essential , makes no sense 180º turning in battle and no maneuver to get away quickly without leaving the battle
Have you compared the speed of maaaanually making your mech turn around versus a 180 twist_ What happens if you get flanked_ In DM, especially, this can happen a lot, because spawn zones shift and you might have people spawn in areas behind you.
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#9 Rotaken

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Posted October 29 2012 - 08:41 PM

View PostElix, on October 29 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

View PostDarioPerfectus, on October 29 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

backward boost is essential , makes no sense 180º turning in battle and no maneuver to get away quickly without leaving the battle
Have you compared the speed of maaaanually making your mech turn around versus a 180 twist_ What happens if you get flanked_ In DM, especially, this can happen a lot, because spawn zones shift and you might have people spawn in areas behind you.

So correct.
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#10 Aree

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Posted October 29 2012 - 09:04 PM

Okay. Go into your hangar. Take a good looonng look at the engines on the REAR of the machine.

okay now.

Tell me how rockets on the backside of a mech can make the machine blast backwards.

The 180 spin makes mechanical sense, reverse thrusting with reward facing engines.

Not so much.

#11 Elix

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Posted October 29 2012 - 09:07 PM

It's worth pointing out that you shouldn't exactly be looking for hardcore realism in Hawken. Assault-class mechs can magically drop their heat while unloading a machinegun at full blast.

But, yes, if you want a back-boosting mech, you get to have a mech with a chest that looks like it was ripped from the USS Enterprise-A. lol.
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#12 Ruzhyo

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Posted October 29 2012 - 10:38 PM

It might not gel with the models, but I feel like boosting backwards would be much more intuitive. It doesn't mean they have to take the 180-spin move out of the game, they could just bind it to something else. I think Tribes has an option for a 180 spin and that game doesn't even have a cap on how fast you can turn.

If nothing else I think I'll be rebinding the spin move to some other key, because it seems like I have died more than once because of failed attempts to backpedal.

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#13 Urvanis

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Posted October 30 2012 - 01:42 AM

180 thrust - forward thrust - side thrust - 180 thrust. Thats the maneuver you want to pull when you want to reverse thrust -side thrust.
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#14 Zombierave

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Posted October 30 2012 - 12:09 PM

View PostDarioPerfectus, on October 29 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

backward boost is essential , makes no sense 180º turning in battle and no maneuver to get away quickly without leaving the battle
not essential, just really really conveniant. and it does make sense if an enemy is directly behind you you can pull a 180.

View PostRuzhyo, on October 29 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

It might not gel with the models, but I feel like boosting backwards would be much more intuitive. It doesn't mean they have to take the 180-spin move out of the game, they could just bind it to something else. I think Tribes has an option for a 180 spin and that game doesn't even have a cap on how fast you can turn.

If nothing else I think I'll be rebinding the spin move to some other key, because it seems like I have died more than once because of failed attempts to backpedal.
I completely agree with this.

View PostUrvanis, on October 30 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

180 thrust - forward thrust - side thrust - 180 thrust. Thats the maneuver you want to pull when you want to reverse thrust -side thrust.
true, but that requires 2 180 turns, or as i see it maybe 1.5 seconds of standing there, that a back thrust would altogether eliminate.

and realism aside, to reference another game, Armored Core had both all directional boosting and a 180 turn. and yes, the cores had boosters on their backs too. In Hawken, your mech should probably fall straight on its face when you boost forward. But you don't. Assuming there's an auto-stablizer or something that allows your mech to upright itself after boosting forward, then it should also upright itself after boosting backwards that is achieved by leaning backwards.

#15 Nitris

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Posted October 30 2012 - 12:24 PM

Know why you cant shoot while boosting_ Your weapons are used as part of the counterbalance so you don't faceplant. But really it is for game balance. A class mechs would be even more dangerous than they already are. You'd never be able to escape from any fights ever.

Keeping your eyes on target so you can see their every move while boosting backwards is also not in because of game balance.

Regardless, I personally think that the 180+boost is much better for escaping anyway because it allows you to see where you are going. That and there are specific optimisations that give you more speed while boosting forwards.
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#16 AmericanWolf

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Posted October 30 2012 - 04:34 PM

Okay, I've read both the threads and I don't really see the harm in adding a backwards boots for people who want to use it.  If the concern is people being able to fire while escaping backwards, disable or lag the weapons while doing the boost.
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#17 Zombierave

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Posted October 30 2012 - 09:36 PM

I never really considered the backwards boosting to be used in conjunction with shooting, only as having more mobility and keeping an eye on the enemy in front of you. And yes, as the game is an fps the 180 turn allows you to see where you're going, but I don't need to see. I know it's there. And if I mess up estimating distance while back boosting, then it'd be my fault. And just to be clear, at this point i'm talking about a quick boost/thrust like the side to side thrust, not a constant boost/thrust like going forward.

At the very least, I'd like to be able to disable it which I'm sure'll be an option in the future. OR another option would to include some sort of rear-view mirror.

#18 Deu

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Posted November 01 2012 - 09:33 AM

They would have to fit even larger boosters on the front of the mech to compensate for the speed it's already going. Reverse thrusters are just not likely going to happen and rather pointless tbh. It takes what a whole quarter second to Shift+s around and while still holding Shift press w. Problem solved.

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#19 Coldrew

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Posted November 01 2012 - 10:30 AM

The 180 turn came off to me as being something to help you understand the movement mechanics a little better, and encourage you to master you piloting skills.  Nothing rocks sock more than getting in a scrap with some fool, doing a 180 boosting out of his LoS, then when he thinks he's got you on the run, do another 180 and TOW that sucker.  IMO, Boosting backwards to allow you to see your foe while trying to escape or having rear-view mirror is a little redundant. If they're on your back you're going to see them on the minimap.  The info is already there.

As far as improvements to 'backwards' boosting, I found that you can't have doubletap to boost and use shift during this last BCE.  I often mess up hitting shift+S while trying to do a myriad of other things in the heat of battle and would love to be able to double tap S to 180 and use shift for the other moves.  Or a dedicated key bind for the 180 turn
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#20 Beemann

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Posted November 01 2012 - 12:12 PM

Backboosting has been discussed to death
It lowers the level of tactical skill required by allowing you to constantly see, engage and evade your opponent during a retreat, as well as providing an easy out for a bad push
That chain of boosts that Urvanis listed_ That's there for a reason. It SHOULD be tough to disengage
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