27 replies to this topic

[Dyson]

I'm thinking of this as something like a "good sport" bonus to encourage better players to keep sticking it out on the losing team.  I would also love to see something that even if you're on the losing team, you get a bonus if you play through to the finish.

It's very frustrating to be on a server where the other team leaves because they're losing or to be the carry on a losing team and get nothing for the effort.  I also hate being on a losing team and seeing our best player quit out.  I think all of these scenarios could be reduced with the right incentive.  I don't know if I like the idea of penalizing people for quitting (ala League of Legends) but I'm sure that will work just as well.

By the way, I'm not saying there should be a greater bonus for losing than there is for winning.  The point of a game is to win and I hate the idea of "everyone is a winner".

Edited by Dyson, October 31 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Culex]

I like this idea. Especially since when its a stomp the highest player on the losing team sometimes doesn't get as much xp as the lowest player on the winning team.

[The_Silencer]

I like this idea as well.

[CaliberMengsk]

Me as well.

[SilentCid]

Maybe some leaving the game early penalty to deter players from leaving the game without finishing the round.

Edited by SilentCid, October 31 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[Arcana13]

Dyson, on October 31 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

It's very frustrating to be on a server where the other team leaves because they're losing or to be the carry on a losing team and get nothing for the effort.

this!!!

Dyson, on October 31 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I also hate being on a losing team and seeing our best player quit out.  I think all of these scenarios could be reduced with the right incentive.

I ragequit alot...and I am sorry to let down my team (but I FRIGGIN HATE you for not following my advices, maybe that'll go away if the devs improve the chat/voip system)

Dyson, on October 31 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

By the way, I'm not saying there should be a greater bonus for losing than there is for winning.  The point of a game is to win and I hate the idea of "everyone is a winner".

Gotta agree with everything you say there mate. Hope the devs can do something bout this matter (reward system as you propose, or maybe just better balancing in general).

[Manoloco]

I think this is a great idea, it will definitely help balance things, i have noticed before the matches that people try to go to the team were the usual winning pilots are, this lends to a lot of unbalance, with this bonus idea, good pilots will be very allured to play on a losing team.


Arcana13: dont ragequit, i have also written a lot of text with advice during gameplay but i noticed as i improved (totally new to the game) i can help a lot to the final result as i get better and learn more, its all about practice and experience, and this is a new game.

[Crabbit]

I support this. Taking a pummeling and staying in the game takes patients and determination. This type of behavior should be rewarded. I played many matches during the closed beta where I was leading our team, but we were still getting severely hammered. Usually, this was due to imbalanced teams. These scenarios, although frustrating, should encourage players to try harder, instead of rage-quitting. Incentives to further encourage the losing team to stay in the server should definitely be considered.

[akatrio]

I quite like this idea as well (the idea of providing a 'good sport' incentive to the losing members that stick it out to the end). It's disheartening to see team members drop out when you're losing, especially to the point where the number of players on each team becomes rather uneven.

Can't say I'm much for the idea of penalizing people who leave a match early though. A player might disconnect from a game due to a bad connection, a crash, something in real life that requires their attention, etc. People who quit early would already lose out on the extra bonus. Plus, this would also be punishing the players who had to leave the game for some reason or another.

I'm starting to ramble again, but the point is, I agree with the topic poster.

[Nitris]

There already is a punishment for leaving the game before the end. You lose any EXP or HP you would have earned, and you have therefore wasted your time. That is punishment enough in my books.

An idea I had is an "Underdog EXP multiplier" for the team with fewer players. My line of thought is: With having fewer teammates things become harder for you to accomplish. Therefore you should earn more EXP for managing to pull things off.

A few hypothetical numbers ('cause who don't like numbers, right_):

1 player less than the other team = +50% EXP bonus. (kills, assists, captures, EU drop off, etc.)
2 players less than the other team = +100%
3 or more players less than other team = +200% (Seriously, you are at such a huge disadvantage by this point...)

As soon as more people join your team then the boost gets either lowered or removed completely, depending on number difference of course.

Just so that people on the team with fewer players are truely aware of them getting the extra bonus (and therefore more likely to stick it out because they are actually earning still) have the extra bonus added to the HUD when you do earn exp.

Something like:

[X][X]

UltraMegaPilot killed! 100 EXP   + 50 EXP UNDERDOG

SAVIOUR 50 EXP    + 25 EXP UNDERDOG

[akatrio]

^ Actually, that's a really nifty idea. I like.

Ahh, I wasn't sure how exactly XP & Hawken points functioned post-match, but I think I figured something like that was already happening (or just never put two and two together). For some reason, I had in mind when posting that punishment implied something along the lines of taking away from XP/Hawken pts that you had going into the match. Either way, I agree with not earning XP/Hawken points when you leave a match prematurely is enough 'punishment'.

EDIT: I forgot to state my CONCURRENCE!

Edited by akatrio, October 31 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[Lithium03]

There basically is, no matter which side you're on you get something for what you've done in game. You can lose and still get kill leader/ K/D ratio leader/ assists/ energy gained/ time spent on AA's and other stuff, so even if your side is losing you can still get something by continuing and not giving up. A specific bonus to the loser seems a bit off as it makes losing mean less and I feel like it'd make some people try less because they figure they'll just stick with that bonus.

[Arcana13]

Imma just copy paste what I mentioned in another thread bout exp and hawken point gain.

Arcana13, on October 31 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

The problem with the level grind right now is that it is bound alot to the player's skill level. I believe you get exp based on your own damage output and the task on special modes like siege and missile (it's just my own perception, correct me if I'm wrong). Looking at the looser's team's exp gain and you will notice they got significanty less exp if they were steamrolled on hard. While siege tends to give the winning team like 5k - 10k exp for a 30-50 min match I've seen the loosing team stucking with about 2k at most for the best player. That is the reason while you see people moaning about exp gain and some others saying it's pretty swift already. Another example is in my cbt video below. At the end you can see the guy with kd= 0/7 and 2 assist getting away with 22 exp. THAT'S JUST NUTS.

There needs to be an exp-gain based on time and effort, maybe 70% out of time played + 30% out of ingame combat achievements. Might also add a 5% boost to the winning team to get the competition going aswell. That would also lower the difference between exp gain in different modes a bit.

I'm not sure if the exp curve is linear but it feels like it is. Might wanna change it to something more exponential to give new players earlier points to spend on upgrades while keeping vets some thing to do.

Siege matches are long and tiring especially when you are on the losing team. Hell I even might stay and play the whole thing out if the reward wasn't as fuzzy bunny. Getting dmg done to earn exp is just not possible and not fun if the other team overwhelms you and your mates. Resigning the game and play it out as a tdm/dm doesn't help the team members who wants to go on nor does it earn you much exp and hawken points (explanation is in the quote above). In tdm it's mentally easier to play things out since you are not as dependant on teamwork as in missile or siege (tdm still sucks of course if you find yourself left alone by dying mates and getting ganged).

@Manoloco:
I've played a lot of casual third person/dude-bro shooter in the last years so I am accustomed to how pubs turns out. First I believe myself to be a "good and well mannered" gamer with a sense of "dignity and fairness" (huge LOLZ). I even try to balance out teams by switching to the loosing team. Sometimes/often the carrying guy from the loosing team just wants to switch out of his team and it turns out I am the fuzzy bunny guy get switched over and left alone.

Nowadays I just play primary to have my own fun. If I notice my team is doing bad I try to give them advices without being an egotard. If they don't care to listen I just do what they do: strolling around killing random enemies and try to have as much fun as possible. If I am getting steamrolled while doing so I leave. I admit this is not what sportsmanship is about and I am not pleased with it either. But it is not the players fault if the game stacks/ ppl ragequitting. I'd like to see the devs doing something to boost the team spirit in team based gameplay (not just for Hawken but also for every other fun fps game). After all we are here just to have some fun right _

I am absolutely certain that there are lots of competitive gamer out there with similar experience agreeing with my oppinion. Respect to the guys who still practice good sportsmanship by team switching/ silently carrying the team without ranting. I just hope you have your fun too.

edit: now I finally get what this "fuzzy bunny" thing is all about lol. I swear this fuzzy bunny language censor is so fuzzy bunny hillarious

Edited by Arcana13, November 01 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[Dyson]

Lithium03, on October 31 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

There basically is, no matter which side you're on you get something for what you've done in game. You can lose and still get kill leader/ K/D ratio leader/ assists/ energy gained/ time spent on AA's and other stuff, so even if your side is losing you can still get something by continuing and not giving up. A specific bonus to the loser seems a bit off as it makes losing mean less and I feel like it'd make some people try less because they figure they'll just stick with that bonus.

The way this game is setup, having your team be down 1 or 2 players is pretty much a death sentence.  Against two mediocre players I can win a 2 v 1 but my mech is so damaged by the end that I'm probably dead if anyone even looks at me weird.  Against two good players I'm toast.  For this reason, I have NEVER seen the MVP or K/D leader be on a losing team that is short players.

Nitris, on October 31 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

A few hypothetical numbers ('cause who don't like numbers, right_):

1 player less than the other team = +50% EXP bonus. (kills, assists, captures, EU drop off, etc.)
2 players less than the other team = +100%
3 or more players less than other team = +200% (Seriously, you are at such a huge disadvantage by this point...)

This definitely is a great idea since having people leave one side is a slippery slope.

[Baron_Harkonnen]

i agree more xp for the losing team is a must...

[bacon_avenger]

Oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks that it's worth telling everyone in a match that it was a good game, regardless of the win status (or how badly the losing team was beat).  Sportsmanship anyone_

It seems that not everyone believes in this.  I was in several team DM's, and after every match, win or loose, I would tell everyone 'good game'.  I even mentioned a few times that if they stuck it out to the end (even when the winning team has double the kills), it was a good match.

I think it was after a third round that it was asked who kept saying that, then something about get that dude some hugs or that perhaps I had got too many as a child and wasn't dropped on my head enough as one (I'd have to look at the video footage to get the exact wording).

I don't know if they were joking or serious as the next match started before I could ask (which cuts off the voice comms).

Edit:  After reviewing the footage, it does seem they were joking.

There are too many people who play these that will quit if they think that they won't win, putting the team they are on at a severe disadvantage, and I think it's worth acknowledging those who do stick it out to the end.

Edited by bacon_avenger, November 01 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[Merxe]

There's lots of great ideas already in this thread about this matter and not much for me to add.
Players leaving the losing team is always a problem. The smaller the teams in any game, the more problematic it gets.

LoL has a great system where not only you risk being reported for leaving early (which happens every time actually, so it's not worth leaving) but you also can't join another game until the one you left, finishes. Recently, Riot went even further and they allowed for rewarding players for good behaviour, being helpful, friendly etc. but that's another matter.

Not everything can be added to Hawken but there are enough ideas in this thread that it's worth considering adding some of this to Hawken.

Edited by Merxe, November 01 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Arcana13]

I remembered lol to be hardcore competitive to the level where fresh naked newbs gets flamed so hard that they might just wanna alt f4 and deinstall the whole thing. AHHHHhhhh the rage fests.... kinda understandable if you have to play a 30/40 min game knowing you're gonna lose anyway and won't have any fun at all. Well.. I don't know how things works there nowadays so pls don't flame me : )

[Dyson]

Arcana13, on November 02 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

I remembered lol to be hardcore competitive to the level where fresh naked newbs gets flamed so hard that they might just wanna alt f4 and deinstall the whole thing. AHHHHhhhh the rage fests.... kinda understandable if you have to play a 30/40 min game knowing you're gonna lose anyway and won't have any fun at all. Well.. I don't know how things works there nowadays so pls don't flame me : )

It's still exactly like that.  Which is why I went with "reward" instead of "punishment".  Sometimes you use the carrot, sometimes you use the whip.  Most people don't like the whip.

[Titzilla]

The idea of extra exp is definitely something that would be good. The only thing is that it would definitely need some tweaking at some point. Getting 300 plus points for a single kill is way too much and should be avoided, even if there are a ton less players on one team. That makes it relatively easy to get a huge score as long as you got a kill every few deaths. There need to be rewards for being on an imbalanced team for sure, but they have to be properly thought out.