27 replies to this topic

[Arcana13]

might aswell leave the emp as it is and add a new item that favors the fat mechs over the other two.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Arcana13, on November 03 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

might aswell leave the emp as it is and add a new item that favors the fat mechs over the other two.

Right.
Because adding a item that shuts down the ability to boost and dodge as a counterbalance for EMP is such a good idea.
/sarcasm

EDIT: EMP needs to be properly balanced. Adding in another absurd item isn't the way to do that.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, November 03 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[BeefC4ke]

A well placed and especially an ignored turret can cause a lot of damage. I use them and have been shot by them and I do not doubt their power.

I would go as far to say that they've been buffed but it's hard to tell.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Why is this same thread on this forum twice_

[Zeshi]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 02 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Zeshi, on November 02 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Elix, on November 02 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

If you're building a mech that isn't very mobile but has huge guns, and there is a weapon on the battlefield that disables guns, don't you think you'd try and find a way of mitigating that I-win button as totally as possible_

But B and C class mechs don't really have stronger guns than A classes (unless you count the vulcan as an upgraded assault rifle and you consider hellfire missiles actually stronger than other secondarys). They trade mobility for armor, not weapons, so even if a C class is emped, they still have their armor bonus just like A classes still have their mobility bonus.

If you're a C-class and get EMP'd by a lighter mech, your effectively have to take a pounding because you are less mobile.
Once the EMP wears off, you can easily be left with less health than a stock A-class. Your defensive advantage is completely negated.

However, if you're a C-class and EMP a lighter class, they can evade you and run away until the EMP wears off.
At no point do they lose their defensive advantage over a C-class. They are able to return to the fight no worse for the wear.

(DISCLAIMER- I do think that emp is currently too powerful. It needs to be nerfed to have a smaller radius and duration or make it target fire with a faster projectile speed) That being said...

While you could get whittled down by a A class while your emped (although i would argue it would be difficult to get a C below 500 hp in one emp with only 1 A class  once optimizations are taken into account), how is that different from fighting without emp involved_ What i mean is, if no emp is used, an A class is still able to whittle a C down just the same. And if no emp is used an A class is still able to dodge a C classes attacks just the same.

When a C class emps an A class, sure they can evade, but if the C has good aim the A can quite possibly die during the emp. And as far as A classes just waiting around a corner until emp expires, they already do that anyway when overheating or when their weapons are on cd.

As far as the A class being able to straight run away, i do partially agree with you there. A C really wont be able to chase, all it will  be able to do is put a few easy shots into the A class before it gets out of range (because if your boosting away your moving in close to a straight line.) But again, an A class can always just run away from a C when things go bad regardless of emp.

When an A emps a C, its not like the C suddenly loses all ability to dodge and just has to rely on its armor bonus, it can employ the exact same tactics as an A. Sure the A will be able to follow better, but thats where armor comes into to make up the difference. And then yes the A and C are on more equal footing armor wise, but that's because the A landed an emp (which is currently way to easy to do). If the shoe is on the other foot and a C lands an emp, yes the A class still keeps its mobility advantage but it has the possibility of losing most if not all of its armor.

Mechs have basically equal weapons. Emp only takes out weapons. It cant be extremely op because the C's are not losing anything extra. They keep their advantages/disadvantages and A's keep their Advantages/disadvantages.

[Coldrew]

Throwing in my 2 cents on the shield, radar, a bit on the scrambler, and some EMP talk at the bottom.

If you read the shield's flavor text, it mentions being a magnetic shield.  Purely based off the text and my own knowledge of 'bubble' shields from previous video games.  (Bubble shield from halo, ION loader/Axton's turret from borderlands 2.)  I made the assumption that: it will block bullets, you can shoot out of it, and it probably doesn't block explosives.  Those would have to be hella-magnets to block a giant-ass TOW rocket, or my personal fav, a cluster of hellfire and some heat cannon.

For improvements:
I'd love to see better surfacing of the shield's uses: explicit text saying it doesn't totally negate explosions, if you can shoot out of it or not, and a mention that you can afix it to your buddies.  The last of which I didn't know was possible until I saw it in a video, and was able to get my roommate to test on me.  I can't say how easy it is to throw on a fellow mech, but a small HUD indicator would be nice if a friendly was in range.  Code in something like a short range passive hitscan check.  If highlighted mech is same team && inside a range of #, display a colored border around the item icon that's complimentary to the current pilot's HUD color choice.  (Orange border around blue, yellow border around purple.)  If you use the item while the HUD indicator is lit up, launch it straight to the target, instead of thrown onto the ground.

For Balance:
I like the way it is now, I feel a total negation of all damage would be a little too OP, it's nice that if you throw a shield down as a road block for a get-away, you can still do something to your foe if they move in on your shield.  Conversely, it's nice that you can push some sucker out of their shield and get some protection, but it doesn't mean you're totally safe.
I'm not sure if it's possible to stick a bubble onto your own mech, looking straight up and using the item maybe_ but I certainly hope you can't, the trade-off of having to throw it on the ground, or stick it to a friend is fine as is, imo

As for my experience with the radar. I like it as is, it would be handy if you could stick it to walls, but it's already only got 2 health bars, and is very easy to hide in dark corners. The range feels alright as is, for those who don't know it will show baddies even if they aren't shooting or using thrusters/boosting. I found that the minimap, and intel are the single greatest weapon you have at your disposal as a pilot. With that in mind I feel the radar has more use than the scrambler, or a the least, the scrambler takes a bit more care to use really well. A good pilot can shrug off scrambled eggs like its no probs and still chase your dumb ass down, or see you as you try and boost in/start shooting. There isn't much your enemy can do against a well hidden radar other than get out of range.  I have no idea if the radar communicates to your team, but it certainly should if it doesn't.


To add to the EMP talk, I never felt that it was 'OP' when used on me in a C-class, if you aren't a good enough pilot to GTFO that's your own fault, you're slower and larger, but dodge just as well and any other class, if you're rolling solo and get caught by surprise and killed by a single A class, you really messed up.  You should'a seen' em coming and shouldn't have been rolling solo.  If I was to change the EMP it should be .5 seconds shorter, or give a staggered effect.  Primary weapons come back online a few seconds faster than secondary.  
Items are one time use, and if your opponent wants to blow their advantage item on you, it should be an uphill battle.  It's the same reason I feel no grief for the suckers who walk up on me while I'm radar scouting, can get the jump on them, and can throw a turret for support on 'em.  If I want to blow my resources to get that advantage while soloing an energy node, or missile silo, you better be one hell of a pilot, or know when to run and how to poke.

[NIGHTRAV3N]

AsianJoyKiller upon posting this I was away from home and using my smartphone to navigate the HAWKEN forums, and once posted I noticed I did it in the wrong forum section so I moved it here. I figured it would get better input here and more replies then the original post area, and because I was on my phone it wouldn't allow me to delete the other thread dup in my mobile browser. Sorry for the confusion, that's why I reposted with my headline comment of having this thread discussed here.

[AsianJoyKiller]

NIGHTRAV3N, on November 03 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller upon posting this I was away from home and using my smartphone to navigate the HAWKEN forums, and once posted I noticed I did it in the wrong forum section so I moved it here. I figured it would get better input here and more replies then the original post area, and because I was on my phone it wouldn't allow me to delete the other thread dup in my mobile browser. Sorry for the confusion, that's why I reposted with my headline comment of having this thread discussed here.

I see.
Looks like they merged the dup thread anyway.